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Post by bballgirl on Apr 23, 2018 13:04:58 GMT -5
If you need to threaten your spouse to get basic needs, isn't that the time to call time of death? I've read that sex is 15% of marriage. The other 85% is really important too. There are no perfect spouses. I want the 85% and I threatened for the other 15%. That was my situation and my best option. Don't throw all away just for the 15%. And it isn't really a threat. I told her we have four years for our son to go through high school. Then let's evaluate our marriage. She summarized it and said... then you are giving me a four year contract? She also said if I outsource, it's over. We just laughed. My job is not guaranteed to be around either. I understand what you are trying to say and I agree with that however the sex/intimacy/ affection - should not be 0% and the sex should be enthusiastic and satisfying. The number/ percentage will be different for everyone. There are so many variables just as there are so many different aspects to a relationship. I also don't think that anyone should hold another's sexuality hostage.
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Manifesto
Apr 23, 2018 13:34:07 GMT -5
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 23, 2018 13:34:07 GMT -5
“I've read that sex is 15% of marriage. The other 85% is really important too. There are no perfect spouses. I want the 85% and I threatened for the other 15%. That was my situation and my best option. Don't throw all away just for the 15%. ”
How can sex provided by a threat be satisfying? Don’t you want sex provided by mutual love and desire. You may be able to threaten your partner into fucking you but you can’t make her desire you or enjoy the act.
You’ll get grit your teeth and endure sex and that sounds worse than jacking off.
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Post by lwoetin on Apr 24, 2018 11:46:20 GMT -5
I've read that sex is 15% of marriage. The other 85% is really important too. There are no perfect spouses. I want the 85% and I threatened for the other 15%. That was my situation and my best option. Don't throw all away just for the 15%. And it isn't really a threat. I told her we have four years for our son to go through high school. Then let's evaluate our marriage. She summarized it and said... then you are giving me a four year contract? She also said if I outsource, it's over. We just laughed. My job is not guaranteed to be around either. Could you articulate some of the parts of the 85 percent? Someone here posted 15% of marriage is sex so that is close to 1/7 of the reasons. Since marriage is precious and too deep for me to delve into during lunch break, let me link us to Precious. www.preciouscore.com/7-reasons-marriage-is-important/1. You share your life with someone Companionship makes life better. 2. Sex Yes, sex. Guilt-free sex with a cherry on top. It relieves stress, makes you feel better about yourself and produces babies. Sex out of marriage is never the same thing. 3. It is a divine idea God started this thing called marriage and He is a good father. 4. It teaches love You may begin your marriage by being head-over-heels in love but with time, you will have to learn how to love. And there’s nothing more beautiful than loving intentionally. “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.” I Corinthians 13: 4-8 5. It is healthy for the nation A nation with strong marriages is a really strong one. Good marriages are the bedrock of any solid society. “Traditional marriage between a man and woman has been a cornerstone of our society for generations.” 6. It is healthy for kids One of the best things a couple can do for kids is to provide them with a strong marital model. When marriages break, kids break. But when marriages are strong, the kids that come from that marriage witness first hand the power of unity. 7. You grow up Marriage makes you grow up really fast. You get matured because, you now have another human being apart from yourself to deal with. Thank you, Precious!
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Post by lwoetin on Apr 24, 2018 12:08:23 GMT -5
I've read that sex is 15% of marriage. The other 85% is really important too. There are no perfect spouses. I want the 85% and I threatened for the other 15%. That was my situation and my best option. Don't throw all away just for the 15%. And it isn't really a threat. I told her we have four years for our son to go through high school. Then let's evaluate our marriage. She summarized it and said... then you are giving me a four year contract? She also said if I outsource, it's over. We just laughed. My job is not guaranteed to be around either. I understand what you are trying to say and I agree with that however the sex/intimacy/ affection - should not be 0% and the sex should be enthusiastic and satisfying. The number/ percentage will be different for everyone. There are so many variables just as there are so many different aspects to a relationship. I also don't think that anyone should hold another's sexuality hostage. I understand your point. The other 85% is not easy to get either so there has to be some contribution from the 15% apportioned to sex. I am not suggesting we go sexless. And as to being held as a sexual hostage, tie me up to the bed posts already and often.
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Post by lwoetin on Apr 24, 2018 12:19:06 GMT -5
“I've read that sex is 15% of marriage. The other 85% is really important too. There are no perfect spouses. I want the 85% and I threatened for the other 15%. That was my situation and my best option. Don't throw all away just for the 15%. ” How can sex provided by a threat be satisfying? Don’t you want sex provided by mutual love and desire. You may be able to threaten your partner into fucking you but you can’t make her desire you or enjoy the act. You’ll get grit your teeth and endure sex and that sounds worse than jacking off. It's a threat that is good for her though. It's like the threat of going to hell. It forces you to change your life in a positive way. I can't make her desire me. It's my job to make me desirable to her. I accept that challenge and I admit to slacking off during the years. I desire her so I don't grit my teeth. She recently bought a mouth guard though. I do need her effort in satisfying my basic needs.
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Post by choosinghappy on Apr 24, 2018 12:30:30 GMT -5
Someone here posted 15% of marriage is sex so that is close to 1/7 of the reasons. Since marriage is precious and too deep for me to delve into during lunch break, let me link us to Precious. www.preciouscore.com/7-reasons-marriage-is-important/1. You share your life with someone Companionship makes life better. 2. Sex Yes, sex. Guilt-free sex with a cherry on top. It relieves stress, makes you feel better about yourself and produces babies. Sex out of marriage is never the same thing. 3. It is a divine idea God started this thing called marriage and He is a good father. 4. It teaches love You may begin your marriage by being head-over-heels in love but with time, you will have to learn how to love. And there’s nothing more beautiful than loving intentionally. “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.” I Corinthians 13: 4-8 5. It is healthy for the nation A nation with strong marriages is a really strong one. Good marriages are the bedrock of any solid society. “Traditional marriage between a man and woman has been a cornerstone of our society for generations.” 6. It is healthy for kids One of the best things a couple can do for kids is to provide them with a strong marital model. When marriages break, kids break. But when marriages are strong, the kids that come from that marriage witness first hand the power of unity. 7. You grow up Marriage makes you grow up really fast. You get matured because, you now have another human being apart from yourself to deal with. Thank you, Precious! Oh man - I have a negative reaction to so much of what is written here by Precious. Here are my immediate thoughts: 1. Companionship only makes life better if it's with a good companion who enriches your life and self, supports your goals, values, etc. 2. Amazing, guilt-free sex is most DEFINITELY possible with a partner without having to be married to him/her. 3 & 4. Hard for me to put much stock in these since I am not religious. But in regards to love - it is very possible to learn how to fully love outside of a marriage; whether it's romantic love, unconditional love of a child, family member etc, or even a pet. 5. "Good marriages are the bedrock of any solid society." UGH. This is just total bullshit. There are plenty of caring, helpful, well rounded non-married individuals contributing to the good of society. Marital status of the person or their parents has nothing to do with it. 6. It is only a healthy model for kids if it's a GOOD marriage. I've known plenty of "broken" (hate the use of that word here) kids who were raised in a nuclear family, and likewise, plenty of mentally healthy and strong kids who have come from single parents, gay parents, or non-traditional families. 7. There are plenty of other ways to mature that don't include sharing your life with another person. In fact, I could make an argument for the opposite - that without having a partner in life, you are forced to grow up more quickly because you only have yourself to rely upon. Looks like I won't be reading any more by Precious. Thumbs down from me on this one.
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Post by shamwow on Apr 24, 2018 12:47:14 GMT -5
Could you articulate some of the parts of the 85 percent? Someone here posted 15% of marriage is sex so that is close to 1/7 of the reasons. Since marriage is precious and too deep for me to delve into during lunch break, let me link us to Precious. www.preciouscore.com/7-reasons-marriage-is-important/1. You share your life with someone Companionship makes life better. 2. Sex Yes, sex. Guilt-free sex with a cherry on top. It relieves stress, makes you feel better about yourself and produces babies. Sex out of marriage is never the same thing. 3. It is a divine idea God started this thing called marriage and He is a good father. 4. It teaches love You may begin your marriage by being head-over-heels in love but with time, you will have to learn how to love. And there’s nothing more beautiful than loving intentionally. “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.” I Corinthians 13: 4-8 5. It is healthy for the nation A nation with strong marriages is a really strong one. Good marriages are the bedrock of any solid society. “Traditional marriage between a man and woman has been a cornerstone of our society for generations.” 6. It is healthy for kids One of the best things a couple can do for kids is to provide them with a strong marital model. When marriages break, kids break. But when marriages are strong, the kids that come from that marriage witness first hand the power of unity. 7. You grow up Marriage makes you grow up really fast. You get matured because, you now have another human being apart from yourself to deal with. Thank you, Precious! I appreciate Precious's perspective. As a non-Christian, however, I have a slightly different take on each of those points, though. 1. Man is a social animal. We do not live well in isolation, and most of us live best when living with another we can share our day-to-day with. For most of us, that is a member of the opposite sex, but the same need is fulfilled for those who have same-sex relationships. A piece of paper from the state is not needed to have a meaningful life. 2. I think of sex as less than a "cherry on top" than the mortar that holds the entire structure up in difficult times. In a mogonomous relationshp, you pledge to have sex with only that one person. In marriage, that is an explicit commitment for a lifetime. It is more than a cherry on top. It is a level of intimacy that you have promised and expect from your partner. It fulfills that social need in a way your friends and other members of your family simply cannot. Sex for making babies sounds like a load of horseshit to me. 3. Marriage most likely predates whatever divine inspiration Precious invisions it coming from. I'm pretty sure that Marduk, Ra, and Zeus all encouraged marriage. Marriage started because guys wanted to make sure that their property (and let's face it, that included the women) went to their sons and not some other guy the old lady was banging (at least we stopped stoning the ladies because of religious mandates...progress!). Women wanted someone to help with the substantial task of raising the kids and not run off. Also someone to presumably protect them from getting raped by all the other guys in the tribe. A benovelent divine father coming up with it? Not so much. 4. If you need a piece of paper from the state to bind you together when things get tough, I'm not sure that's worth a whole lot. So what happens when you do fall head over heels in love with someone and then figure out shortly thereafter you made a terrible mistake? Our society has a script that says you need to be miserable for the rest of your life. Perhaps you should have chosen better. Better luck next time. 5. I'm not sure how it is in the interest of the nation for me to be so unhappy with my marriage I turned into a full blown alcoholic to cope. But in principle, I do agree that it is better for the country to have people in healthy relationships in love and striving for a common goal. Whether they are opposite sex or same sex? I know plenty of gay folks who had a much healthier marriage than my ISIASM shithole. They are still in their marraiges, too. 6. I'm not sure how healthy staying in my marriage was for the kids. My daughter noted to me after we announced our divorce to them that she hadn't seen my ex and I kiss in 7 years (it had actually been quite a bit longer than that). I'm not sure that sticking it out for the kids is a great strategy for them. I'd argue that the amicable split that my ex and I have managed gives them a better example of how relationships work than some hybrid of "Disney Princess" and some kind of cold war in the living room every night for years on end. I love the hell out of my kids and already feel bad about the fucked up example of what marriage should be than I've already shown them. 7. I got divorced last July. In the year or so prior to that up to now I've grown far more than I did during my 20 years of marriage. I am no longer an emotionally broken down drunk, beaten down by self pity over decades. I look at life and am hopeful. Every day now I am grateful for the things I have and I suffer less from the sickness of greed. I know now that I deserve to be loved. I also have the capacity to fully love back without fear and reservation. I am more surprised by anyone at this transformation, but know it wouldn't have been remotely possible had I stayed in my marriage. With all that said, I do think precious has a point on marriage if both people pick wisely and are blessed in large amounts by luck. Look at former First Lady Barbara Bush and former President Bush. They were married 73 years and from all accounts truly loved each other. Many of us see that same story with people in our own lives. It is the ideal script our society promotes. But you have to remember. It is just a script. You've still got to have the right actors, set, and other characters. If you are religiously inclined, you even have a director. If that 85% truly is there without the sex? Then a solid B life may be worth living if you have 100% on everything else (uh huh). Risking losing that may also not be worth the possibility of living a deeply satisfied "A" life. But that is a choice everyone must make for themselves. I don't plan on ever getting married again. I will be having no more children (snipped) and can have all of the other things without following the societal script that almost led me to destruction. My life with ballofconfusion is amazing! I dont't see how a piece of paper from the state (or blessing from on high) will add to it even to the smallest degree. Sorry. That article just made me cringe.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 24, 2018 13:00:43 GMT -5
I agree with lonelywifey and shamwow. I'm no fan of Precious.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 13:29:49 GMT -5
Besides the good critiques of Precious' article, it doesn't address the original point. The assertion was that sex was only 15% of marriage, and this list is about supposed benefits of marriage to society. Apples and oranges.
But even if sex was only 15% of marriage, lack of sex often indicates:
Lack of respect Loss of self esteem Friction in all other areas Lack of intimacy
Add it all up, and for most couples it adds up to a lot more.
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Post by shamwow on Apr 24, 2018 14:23:28 GMT -5
Besides the good critiques of Precious' article, it doesn't address the original point. The assertion was that sex was only 15% of marriage, and this list is about supposed benefits of marriage to society. Apples and oranges. But even if sex was only 15% of marriage, lack of sex often indicates: Lack of respect Loss of self esteem Friction in all other areas Lack of intimacy Add it all up, and for most couples it adds up to a lot more. Yup. Hard to get that 85 percent perfect score if you're shitting on the other 15 percent. And you're right. What is good for society writ large isn't necessarily good for the members of that society.
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Post by DryCreek on Apr 24, 2018 14:56:00 GMT -5
I've read that sex is 15% of marriage. The other 85% is really important too. There are no perfect spouses. I want the 85% and I threatened for the other 15%. Eating is less than 15% of my activity. That doesn't mean I can give it up. I get the point that "it's not everything", but life is full of "sanitary conditions" that are deal-breakers even when they're small things.
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Post by lwoetin on Apr 25, 2018 12:02:00 GMT -5
Someone here posted 15% of marriage is sex so that is close to 1/7 of the reasons. Since marriage is precious and too deep for me to delve into during lunch break, let me link us to Precious. www.preciouscore.com/7-reasons-marriage-is-important/1. You share your life with someone Companionship makes life better. 2. Sex Yes, sex. Guilt-free sex with a cherry on top. It relieves stress, makes you feel better about yourself and produces babies. Sex out of marriage is never the same thing. 3. It is a divine idea God started this thing called marriage and He is a good father. 4. It teaches love You may begin your marriage by being head-over-heels in love but with time, you will have to learn how to love. And there’s nothing more beautiful than loving intentionally. “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.” I Corinthians 13: 4-8 5. It is healthy for the nation A nation with strong marriages is a really strong one. Good marriages are the bedrock of any solid society. “Traditional marriage between a man and woman has been a cornerstone of our society for generations.” 6. It is healthy for kids One of the best things a couple can do for kids is to provide them with a strong marital model. When marriages break, kids break. But when marriages are strong, the kids that come from that marriage witness first hand the power of unity. 7. You grow up Marriage makes you grow up really fast. You get matured because, you now have another human being apart from yourself to deal with. Thank you, Precious! Oh man - I have a negative reaction to so much of what is written here by Precious. Here are my immediate thoughts: 1. Companionship only makes life better if it's with a good companion who enriches your life and self, supports your goals, values, etc. 2. Amazing, guilt-free sex is most DEFINITELY possible with a partner without having to be married to him/her. 3 & 4. Hard for me to put much stock in these since I am not religious. But in regards to love - it is very possible to learn how to fully love outside of a marriage; whether it's romantic love, unconditional love of a child, family member etc, or even a pet. 5. "Good marriages are the bedrock of any solid society." UGH. This is just total bullshit. There are plenty of caring, helpful, well rounded non-married individuals contributing to the good of society. Marital status of the person or their parents has nothing to do with it. 6. It is only a healthy model for kids if it's a GOOD marriage. I've known plenty of "broken" (hate the use of that word here) kids who were raised in a nuclear family, and likewise, plenty of mentally healthy and strong kids who have come from single parents, gay parents, or non-traditional families. 7. There are plenty of other ways to mature that don't include sharing your life with another person. In fact, I could make an argument for the opposite - that without having a partner in life, you are forced to grow up more quickly because you only have yourself to rely upon. Looks like I won't be reading any more by Precious. Thumbs down from me on this one. choosinghappy, would you rather be in a marriage (preferably as @happywifey) or not? If yes, why? If I read and remember correctly, baza thinks it is in his future with Ms ennA and it would be interesting to know why. I understand we all have different perspectives on marriage, but some common ones as well.
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Post by choosinghappy on Apr 25, 2018 12:11:26 GMT -5
Oh man - I have a negative reaction to so much of what is written here by Precious. Here are my immediate thoughts: 1. Companionship only makes life better if it's with a good companion who enriches your life and self, supports your goals, values, etc. 2. Amazing, guilt-free sex is most DEFINITELY possible with a partner without having to be married to him/her. 3 & 4. Hard for me to put much stock in these since I am not religious. But in regards to love - it is very possible to learn how to fully love outside of a marriage; whether it's romantic love, unconditional love of a child, family member etc, or even a pet. 5. "Good marriages are the bedrock of any solid society." UGH. This is just total bullshit. There are plenty of caring, helpful, well rounded non-married individuals contributing to the good of society. Marital status of the person or their parents has nothing to do with it. 6. It is only a healthy model for kids if it's a GOOD marriage. I've known plenty of "broken" (hate the use of that word here) kids who were raised in a nuclear family, and likewise, plenty of mentally healthy and strong kids who have come from single parents, gay parents, or non-traditional families. 7. There are plenty of other ways to mature that don't include sharing your life with another person. In fact, I could make an argument for the opposite - that without having a partner in life, you are forced to grow up more quickly because you only have yourself to rely upon. Looks like I won't be reading any more by Precious. Thumbs down from me on this one. choosinghappy, would you rather be in a marriage (preferably as @happywifey) or not? If yes, why? If I read and remember correctly, baza thinks it is in his future with Ms ennA and it would be interesting to know why. I understand we all have different perspectives on marriage, but some common ones as well. I would love to be in a marriage as happywifey because that would mean I found someone who I connect well with and we are sharing our lives together. I think companionship is important, as long as you are happier WITH the other person than alone. But that companionship, in my view, does not necessarily have to include marriage. I am open to being married again and would like that if I found the right person, but I would also be okay just having a partner and not signing any papers. Continually choosing to be with the other, day after day might have its benefits too. I think all of us here now know that just being MARRIED does not equal happiness with a partner.
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Post by bballgirl on Apr 25, 2018 13:22:06 GMT -5
I've read that sex is 15% of marriage. The other 85% is really important too. There are no perfect spouses. I want the 85% and I threatened for the other 15%. Eating is less than 15% of my activity. That doesn't mean I can give it up. I get the point that "it's not everything", but life is full of "sanitary conditions" that are deal-breakers even when they're small things. Amen to that!
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Post by solodriver on Jul 22, 2018 23:09:35 GMT -5
I've read that sex is 15% of marriage. The other 85% is really important too. There are no perfect spouses. I want the 85% and I threatened for the other 15%. That was my situation and my best option. Don't throw all away just for the 15%. Perhaps sex itself is 15% but a complete lack of both sex and intimacy (in my case anyway) adds up to SO much more. I think this is correlated to the recent thread about What a good marriage looks like: r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=1424778&share_tid=4376&url=http%3A%2F%2Filiasm%2Eorg%2Fthread%2F4376&share_type=tAppreciation, respect, desire, passion are all part of that other 85%. With those subtracted from the total on top of the 15%, there’s not too much left to “throw away”. In my case:
75% = complete lack of sex, intimacy and desire 25% = appreciation, respect, desire and passion
There is nothing left in this relationship according to my values.
I have my answer.
Of course your values may very.
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