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Post by WindSister on Mar 20, 2018 9:42:49 GMT -5
And his reply gives me hope. His one little blurb gives you hope? It just seems like you give him so much and he gives you his back and, then his absence, and then a little kissy-face. In a text. From afar. I see you giving it all you got --- it just seems so obvious you are wanting a relationship that offers more than this man can possibly ever give with his lack of ability to connect with you. I wish I was wrong. ((hugs))
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Post by choosinghappy on Mar 20, 2018 10:01:38 GMT -5
"During all of this he laid on the floor with his back to me, petting the dog. Then he got up without a word, without looking at me, went to wash his hands for a good 5 minutes. Then walked past me in the living room. Stopped, turned and said, “I’m going to bed. I don’t know what to say.” Oh elynne, this breaks my heart for you. I can imagine the crushing feeling that (lack of) response gave you :-( HUGS I have to agree with @windsister :-(
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Post by DryCreek on Mar 20, 2018 10:23:48 GMT -5
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 20, 2018 11:40:28 GMT -5
"During all of this he laid on the floor with his back to me, petting the dog. Then he got up without a word, without looking at me, went to wash his hands for a good 5 minutes. Then walked past me in the living room. Stopped, turned and said, “I’m going to bed. I don’t know what to say.”
Sounds like something my ex would have done. Finally — 36 years into our relationship, I divorced him. I now surround myself with people who listen to me and respond with empathy.
Oh, and I, too thought my ex was a great father. What I now am able to notice is his lack of response to me taught my sons not to respond to me.
I can remember sitting at the dinner table and asking the boys about their school day and getting nothing from them or my husband. They just shrugged or acted like I had said nothing.
I also remember that while I’d ask my husband about his day, his trips, he’d never ask me even when I called in from another continent.
I’m now 5 years out of my marriage and my sons are 30, 34 and I’m having to teach them to express interest in me. I realize how much I’d been caring for them and my ex but had received little concern in return.
My ex wasn’t mean or abusive. He was just indifferent to me. I didn’t realize how little I got from him emotionally until I got out of the marriage and into a relationship with a man who delights in my presence, asks about my day, compliments me, lights up when he sees me, enjoys making love to me, doesn’t act scared when I ask him about his life.
I do think my ex loved me as much as he was capable of. He just isn’t capable of deep intimacy.
This is a man whom upon divorce and retirement at age 62 moved 8,500 miles from his aged, sick (Alzheimer’s) parents and sons who were in their twenties. He moved to Asia (he is not Asian) because he liked the culture. When I pointed out to him that due to distance, he would not likely see his kids or parents, he looked at me blankly. He said, “the kids are grown” as if that meant there was no reason to see them face to face.
He has come back about 2 times since he left. I just learned he is coming to the US again — for a week, timed to the opening game of his favorite baseball team, which is a 7 hour drive from his parents’ 13 hour drive from one son, 17 hour drive from another. He plans to drive to his parents and the son whose a 13 hour drive. He was surprised when I said he should at least give the other son a chance to drive to see him. He hadn’t thought of even telling that son he was coming to the US. Because he had mentioned the visit in a public FB happy birthday to our other son, he figured both sons would know....
I now know a lot of the reason my ex was a good dad was I was doing the heavy lifting emotionally.
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Post by bballgirl on Mar 20, 2018 12:44:17 GMT -5
elynneI'm agreeing with WindSister here As far as a response from him - His texts were crumbs or a way to pacify you until the next episode. His laying on the floor, petting the dog, and then going to bed shows that he does not have much emotional intelligence. He's not capable of loving you the way you want to be loved. At this point you need to focus on yourself and figure out what you want out of the relationship with him. Do you still want to be in a relationship with him? I understand that you don't have sex together but do you do other things together? Go to dinner, movies, outings? Last couple of years of my marriage was a shithole. We didn't even have the money to go out together even if we wanted to and we didn't. There was nothing the marriage was dead, unhealthy, I dreamed of divorce papers and wanted to live without him. Could an open marriage work? Could a divorce but still live together work? Could a separation work before actually getting the divorce? Focus on yourself and what you want. Just realize what he can and can not provide for you. One of my mantras: "I only want people in my life that make my life happier and better". What ways does H make your life better?
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 20, 2018 13:30:07 GMT -5
Like the others have said he is kicking the can down the road.
You are giving this " false hope". As so many of us have. There's a difference in that and "hope".
Here is something you can practice doing. Listen and watch how your spouse manipulates, controls, and bullies others. He will constantly pull DARVO on them.
Use this and learn from it. Respond to it in your own mind. Interject if you want to! It's easier when your momma bear instincts kick in and you are defending your children.
Your H. Lied to you. He knew about the dog.His own words.
Confront him again! On line is better( it's all recorded, you have time to respond, and stay on topic) If he decides to remain silent, remember this." Saying nothing is saying SOMETHING".
HIS lies give ZERO trust and you owe him zero respect. Je has to earn that back.
Don't hold your breath.That would require giving up control. Which you can take back by not allowing him to ride over your boundaries.
Next time the dog is barking wake him up tell him " go take care of the dog , do it now! You lied about it last time, get it done. Repeat it over and over , no matter what Darvo he throws at you. Tell him he can stay out with the dog too!
Draw the line in the sand, set boundaries with consequences.
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 20, 2018 14:00:28 GMT -5
My now ex W. once gave me a similar response.She said " you've said so many things, I don't know how to respond to them!"
Do you see the avoidance, the reversal and the victim in that?
I did not let it go ( for once) I was to tcked off! Instead I replied " fine! I will answer it and respond for you, and repeat everyrhing".
Which I did. She hated that and left the room as I continued to follow her and speak to her.
Here's an example of how a NPD controls others. Last night my 14 yr old daughter steps out of the bathroom after taking a shower. My ex is one room down the hallway. My ex is sitting in her daddy's room in a chair the entire time. Mom. Did you dry the floor? Daughter. No, why? Mom. Grandpa is going to use it, he could slip and fall, you need to dry it. Daughter. Mom I'm standing here in the hallway, naked with a towel around me! Mom. So, you need to dry the floor. Daughter. No! Mom. I'm going to my room to get dressed mom! ( good for her, by the way) Mom. (Instantly) come back and dry it as soon as your dressed. Daughter. Okay mom.
Mom still won the whole thing. She wasn't fazed at all. She never moved or got up.
Grandpas shower and safety needs to be 100% Mom's responsability. Not a responsability placed on the teens who have no say in the matter.
Do you think my daughter wants to continue communicating with her mom?
They avoid her more and more.like I did. ( is that what is occurring at your house?)
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Mar 20, 2018 14:01:48 GMT -5
elynne I think you have been given some solid advice from a reputable group of members. It does appear like you are settling for crumbs here based on this last interaction. You are tearing your soul apart looking for a signal, weak signal, any signal as a sign of a connection. And he has given you exactly what you were looking for. A weak signal to hang your hat on. Is that the connection you need?
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 20, 2018 14:14:52 GMT -5
“Daughter. Mom I'm standing here in the hallway, naked with a towel around me! Mom. So, you need to dry the floor. Daughter. No! Mom. I'm going to my room to get dressed mom! ( good for her, by the way) Mom. (Instantly) come back and dry it as soon as your dressed. Daughter. Okay mom.”
I agree with you on many things. Still, I think the daughter should dry the floor for everyone’s safety. She easily could have done that after dressing.
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 20, 2018 14:46:20 GMT -5
I understand that. (That is what she did. The drying of the floor. She even agreed to it, after she was dressed). However , it has NEVER been an issue or a problem in our entire 25 yrs. Of living together. Including my ex NEVER drying the floor!
Another example of a one way street paved with double standards.Do you think my ex dried the floor after her daddy ( grandpa) was done? NOT!!! Instead she told him I'm going to bed and left him to himself!
Did my ex dry the floor after granpa was done? Did my ex consider that anyone else ( mostly the girls) could use the bathroom again, and could slip on the wet floor? ( never mind that there is a nice size rug/towel to stand on when you exit the shower and our floors are rarely ever wet)
This example is just the tip of the iceberg. You can only imagine how much else is demanded on everyone in the name of " helping Grandpa". When the bottom line is Grandpa was/is an intruder in our hosehold, marriage, and the childrens upbringing. He helped form a convenient "triangulation" in our marriage. Just more manipulation and control through my ex using him.
How does this relate back to the original post? I think there is an awful lot to be learned by watching how your spouse ignores, violates, manipulates, others in the household. All for their own needs and fear of giving up any control.
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 20, 2018 15:52:34 GMT -5
“I understand that. (The drying of the floor). However , it has NEVER been an issue or a problem in our entire 25 yrs. Of living together. Including my ex NEVER drying the floor!
Another example of a one way street paved with double standards.Do you think my ex dried the floor after her daddy ( grandpa) was done? NOT!!! Instead she told him I'm going to bed and left him...”
She sounds like a hypocrite and control freak.
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Post by elkclan2 on Mar 20, 2018 16:17:36 GMT -5
northstarmom - I think drying the floor is very reasonable, too (not knowing about the state of their floors, 14 yo's shower habits, slippiness of the floor in general, etc etc) But that's how they get you. They suddenly pick on what might actually quite be a reasonable thing. I don't think a wet floor for an old man is the same as a wet floor for a 14 yr old. If the 14 yo slips, it will probably not even result in a fall and if it does, it probably won't result in an injury worse than bruising. When an old person falls it can mean death. Simple as that. Death. A trip or fall can lead to a hospitalisation and frankly the death spiral. But it may be that their floors really are pretty non-slip and 14 yo doesn't drip or slosh much and the towel catches what she does from just getting out of the tub, making it an unreasonable dialogue. But to you and me, "dry the floor for the old man" sounds reasonable. Many of my ex's criticisms of me were perfectly reasonable on the face of it and on their own. But they were fucking relentless and many were frankly pointless. When you get to the point where greatcoastal is you completely lose perspective and can no longer tell reasonable from unreasonable because you're in hyper-aware defense mode ALL.THE.TIME. And you're in that mode because you're in an abusive relationship. When he gets out, it will take a while, but he won't be on a hair trigger for criticism. It also takes a while for you to develop the ability to criticise as well. I remember my partner doing something that is a no-no. He was resting a heavy pan on the oven door and a previous one broke without even that*. I tried to swallow it and say nothing, I tried to reason that it was probably fine. In the end, I said, "Oh a previous door broke, so you can't rest pans on it." My ex would have exploded in anger or gone 20 minutes explaining why it was ok or how it was my fault the pan was on the door in the first place. My current partner - "Oh, ok." And he hasn't done it again. He's good at giving criticism, too. For example, I never noticed that there was a cancel button on toasters, so I always just forced up the lever. I've gone through more toasters than one might expect. He explained the mechanism and how I was contributing to toaster failure and we had a good old laugh. ___ * I never put pans on it and while I can't swear my ex never did, I never saw him do it.
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 20, 2018 16:56:01 GMT -5
There's truth in what you say elkclan2 ( I really didn't want to get off track from the OP) What annoys me most is that my ex could have asked our daughter respectfully and nicely. ( but that means giving up even a small amount of control). I thought my daughter did well to say "no! I'm standing here naked wearing a towel". Never mind that it is 9:30 pm and my daughter still has homework and school in the morning. My ex is sitting on her ___ the whole time. Doing what she does best, controlling. My daughter had every right to tell her mom" you don't even know if there is ANY water on the floor mom! I get completely dry before I even step out of the tub onto the rug/towel, instead you just sit there in the other room asuming and demanding! ( not that I expect my 14 yr old to even think such things that quickly) That's how they win. It is also very disturbing to watch her shift the responsability, and blame on a 14 yr.old. Grandpa has passed out on the toilet before, and hit his head on the floor. She should be walking him into the shower herself, by the hand. None of us want to be helping naked 85 yr old grandpa in the bathroom! My teens have eneough problems as it is! This 9:30pm shower is also a brand new event. Grandpa has been doing his own shower for years. , in the late morning with no help needed. So my daughter was not prepaired for it. So now she will not even use that showet anymore ( there are 3 in the house) and/or will change her schudule. Whew!! Just more reasons why my ex needs to be here full time if she insists on having Grandpa live here, and give no one else in the family any say in the matter. I need to digress BIG TIME! To tie this in to the OP, I am able to see what a sucker I was to my spouses manipulative control by how others respond to her tactics. I also wittness a very, very detrimental avoidance, retreat, fear , and gult that resonates into our family.
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 20, 2018 17:21:32 GMT -5
"’I've certainly put my marriage on the line. It’s either fix it or end it. And I’m pushing until we reach a conclusion."
The interaction you posted reflected how you give him your heart, and he gave you nothing but a couple of emojis in return. If he had given a damn, he would have taken a real action such as pulling out a calendar and checkbook to see when you could go to the workshop that you proposed.
For reasons of his own, he will not say outright that he doesn't give a damn about you and the marriage, that he's only in it for whatever conveniences are in it for him. But his actions are saying loud and clear that he doesn't care. And the marriage will remain like that until you-- the singular "you" -- decide to end it. To keep "pushing until we reach a conclusion" is just wasting your time while you continue living in misery.
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Post by elynne on Mar 20, 2018 17:38:00 GMT -5
"During all of this he laid on the floor with his back to me, petting the dog. Then he got up without a word, without looking at me, went to wash his hands for a good 5 minutes. Then walked past me in the living room. Stopped, turned and said, “I’m going to bed. I don’t know what to say.” Sounds like something my ex would have done. Finally — 36 years into our relationship, I divorced him. I now surround myself with people who listen to me and respond with empathy. Oh, and I, too thought my ex was a great father. What I now am able to notice is his lack of response to me taught my sons not to respond to me. I can remember sitting at the dinner table and asking the boys about their school day and getting nothing from them or my husband. They just shrugged or acted like I had said nothing. I also remember that while I’d ask my husband about his day, his trips, he’d never ask me even when I called in from another continent. I’m now 5 years out of my marriage and my sons are 30, 34 and I’m having to teach them to express interest in me. I realize how much I’d been caring for them and my ex but had received little concern in return. My ex wasn’t mean or abusive. He was just indifferent to me. I didn’t realize how little I got from him emotionally until I got out of the marriage and into a relationship with a man who delights in my presence, asks about my day, compliments me, lights up when he sees me, enjoys making love to me, doesn’t act scared when I ask him about his life. I do think my ex loved me as much as he was capable of. He just isn’t capable of deep intimacy. This is a man whom upon divorce and retirement at age 62 moved 8,500 miles from his aged, sick (Alzheimer’s) parents and sons who were in their twenties. He moved to Asia (he is not Asian) because he liked the culture. When I pointed out to him that due to distance, he would not likely see his kids or parents, he looked at me blankly. He said, “the kids are grown” as if that meant there was no reason to see them face to face. He has come back about 2 times since he left. I just learned he is coming to the US again — for a week, timed to the opening game of his favorite baseball team, which is a 7 hour drive from his parents’ 13 hour drive from one son, 17 hour drive from another. He plans to drive to his parents and the son whose a 13 hour drive. He was surprised when I said he should at least give the other son a chance to drive to see him. He hadn’t thought of even telling that son he was coming to the US. Because he had mentioned the visit in a public FB happy birthday to our other son, he figured both sons would know.... I now know a lot of the reason my ex was a good dad was I was doing the heavy lifting emotionally. northstarmom! Your comment about his behavior teaching the kids not to respond to you is painfully familiar. It makes me too sad to think about it. It’s like h’s example starts erasing my identity and place in the family.
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