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Post by surfergirl on Jan 26, 2018 12:05:00 GMT -5
And by "controlling" another person, I mean in all forms: begging, manipulating, threatening, coercing, deal-making, trying harder, etc.
If there is a common theme amongst us all, something that binds us just as much as the sexlessness and despair, it's that we all tried to get our needs met through various methods of control and failed.
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Post by Dan on Jan 26, 2018 12:13:31 GMT -5
Isn't it tantamount to "throw your spouse under the bus in front of the kids"? It’s not throwing anyone under the bus. Far from it! Personally I think it’s called ‘being responsible’.... You are right. I misread your post. I apologize. You did NOT recommend that surfergirl throw her husband under the bus, an example of which would be her blaming him (in front of the children). You suggested that HE should be the one to accept responsibility (in front of the children) for the dissolution of the marriage, if SG moves forward with it. SG figures that is unlikely to happen. FWIW: so do I.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 26, 2018 12:15:34 GMT -5
All, I'd apologize for high-jacking the thread, but since my anniversary was yesterday, I don't think it's a high-jack of the "Valentine's Day" idea. Same story, different verse. I PROPOSED TO MY WIFE ON VALENTINES DAY 26 YRS. AGO. VALENTINES DAY IS NOW BITTER-SWEET. I suppose it was somewhat predictable what would happen with my first/only Outsource. I guess I still have not been properly laid, so all the more reason to be more circumspect and careful now. I suppose one thing I can do is own my vulnerability and desperateness-- not so that I feel more shame, but so that I can understand that my decision making process is skewed. I CAN RELATE IN MY OWN SKEWED BEHAVIOR. NOT LONG AFTER FILLING I FOUND MYSELF STANDING ,WALKING,ON THE BEACH NEAR OUR HOME LOOKING UP AT EVERY TOURIST ON THEIR BALCONIES, ON THE BEACH, AT THE BAR, IN THE POOLS AND WONDERING, "THEIR MUST BE SOMEONE HERE VISITING,ON BUSINESS, ETC...WHO WANTS A ONE NIGHT STAND?" I BEGAN TO REALIZE HOW MUCH I HAD LOWERED MYSELF , HOW MY DECISION PROCESS WAS SKEWED. Dan has it right, albeit with a few minor tweaks. I want to: a) get some good-to-great sex before age 50 (the year my youngest leaves the house and I'll be free from my obligations) MANY OF US HAD THOSE SAME KIND OF PLANS AND GOALS. A SEASON OR TWO CAN CHANGE YOUR PERSPECTIVE. INCLUDING THE KIDS BECOMING MORE INDEPENDENT, AND WHAT DO YOU HAVE LEFT? YOURSELF. WHAT YOU THINK OF YOURSELF, BASED ON A H.- WHO IS ADDICTED TO PORN AND CONTROL. b) not have my kids mad at me (which for THEM, means preserving the marriage facade) IT'S GOING TO BE THAT MUCH HARDER TO BE TRUE TO YOURSELF LIVING THE MARRIAGE FACADE. (you could start doing more and more activities separate with each or a few of your kids, away from your H. Similar to what it will be like when you are single. You can practice being your true self around them) I could be a jerk, I suppose, and make life miserable so that the kids would WANT us to get divorced. But it's just not in me. My husband and I get along and give the kids a good atmosphere. We do loving behavior toward one another during the day, so it's not tense. WHO'S LIFE IS IT ANYWAYS? ARE YOU GOING TO WANT TO SEE THEM GROWING UP THE SAME WAY? PUTTING ON A FAKE FACADE? PUTTING THEIR KIDS FIRST ALWAYS, CONSTANTLY GIVING TO THEIR H. , OR W. AND NEVER RECEIVING BACK ? AND PUTTING THEMSELVES DEAD LAST? I have a ton of info directly from them that says otherwise. THAT'S INFORMATION FROM KIDS. YOU ARE THE ADULT. THERE"S A TON OF INFO FOR YOU TO READ OUT THERE THAT SAYS OTHER WISE. SHOW ME YOUR 4 BEST FRIENDS AND I WILL SHOW YOU YOUR FUTURE. So yes, basically, my kids are holding my sex life hostage. Which is why outsourcing was my preferred choice, which is also why I have my legal stuff in order. But none of it feels good. It all feels like shit. I just want to make a good decision. I made the decision to STAY for the last 20 years, and I hate myself for it. So I want to make decisions now that I won't hate myself for in another 10 years. But all of it just sounds like: Do you prefer to die via drowning, arsenic, or fire? THESE ARE LIFE CHANGING DECISIONS WE/YOU ARE DISCUSSING. FORTUNATELY YOU ARE PEELING BACK THE LAYERS OF THE ONION. ONE AT A TIME.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 26, 2018 12:45:23 GMT -5
This sounds good only in a delicious, self-indulgent, "vent your anger but only in your own head" sort of way. Isn't it tantamount to "throw your spouse under the bus in front of the kids"? My view is: my wife will have her impression of why I left, and I will have mine. It is each our own prerogative to recap that as we see fit to anyone we know -- including mutual friends and family... and even the kids. I happen to like and trust my relationship with each of my kids, and I think each relationship will weather a divorce adequately or better. Granted, mine are in the 17 to 26-year old range, and my situation is different that surfergirl 's, or anyone's. Either way, it doesn't matter. It's a nice thought, and I've tried working with him on The Presentation of the Story. He won't own fault in front of the kids, and if there's ONE THING I FUCKING KNOW WITHOUT A DOUBT and everyone else here is in varying stages of ownership of this same thing: it's that you can not control another person. Now, I do believe my case is exceptional, in that, my Husband agrees that our marriage has been (a) sexless and (b) entirely because of his own doing. But getting him to own any fault in front of the kids, even as a softened G-rated version, it will never ever happen. Same here sister, same here!! Fortunately many of my children saw right through it, and agree about my spouse treating them, manipulating them in the same way. (Scratch that. They have been victims of the FOG too. It took some deep sharing for them to realize and see many of the same things being done to them) It's like a light bulb went on for them! Then I have one who just want's to live in denial and is more interested in who can give him the most $$$ benefit. HMMM things he learned from his mother? I may never be able to change that. back to "to thine own self be true" and be available for when and if the day ever comes. Reminds me of the prodigal son.
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Post by baza on Jan 26, 2018 17:19:37 GMT -5
And by "controlling" another person, I mean in all forms: begging, manipulating, threatening, coercing, deal-making, trying harder, etc. If there is a common theme amongst us all, something that binds us just as much as the sexlessness and despair, it's that we all tried to get our needs met through various methods of control and failed. There is indeed a common thread among us ILIASM siblings. We are all grieving the death of our marriage, or what we thought our marriage was, or what we hoped our marriage would be. And so, we go through the typical stages of grief that happen when something is lost (or was never there). We go through - - Denial - Where we stick our head in the sand and pretend it isn't happening. "Everything is great bar the sex" - Anger - This isn't fair, I don't deserve this. Listing the spouses faults etc. - Bargaining - Trying to revive the deal. Scented candling, date nights etc. - Depression - Where the reality hits. - Acceptance - Where you own your situation and accept it for what it is. Once you've got through *denial* (and some people never do) you usually start cycling to and fro between *anger* and *bargaining*. *Depression* has usually reared its' ugly head by this stage (and some people never get through it). The elusive *acceptance* you might get some tantalising glimpses of from time to time during this grieving process, thinking you have got it, only to find that you really haven't. Ones progress through this process is rarely linear. Usually you jump around from one to another then back again and drive yourself nuts. These things are common to us all in this group. We grieve for what our marriage failed to be.
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Post by brian on Jan 26, 2018 20:33:35 GMT -5
And by "controlling" another person, I mean in all forms: begging, manipulating, threatening, coercing, deal-making, trying harder, etc. If there is a common theme amongst us all, something that binds us just as much as the sexlessness and despair, it's that we all tried to get our needs met through various methods of control and failed. There is indeed a common thread among us ILIASM siblings. We are all grieving the death of our marriage, or what we thought our marriage was, or what we hoped our marriage would be. And so, we go through the typical stages of grief that happen when something is lost (or was never there). We go through - - Denial - Where we stick our head in the sand and pretend it isn't happening. "Everything is great bar the sex" - Anger - This isn't fair, I don't deserve this. Listing the spouses faults etc. - Bargaining - Trying to revive the deal. Scented candling, date nights etc. - Depression - Where the reality hits. - Acceptance - Where you own your situation and accept it for what it is. Once you've got through *denial* (and some people never do) you usually start cycling to and fro between *anger* and *bargaining*. *Depression* has usually reared its' ugly head by this stage (and some people never get through it). The elusive *acceptance* you might get some tantalising glimpses of from time to time during this grieving process, thinking you have got it, only to find that you really haven't. Ones progress through this process is rarely linear. Usually you jump around from one to another then back again and drive yourself nuts. These things are common to us all in this group. We grieve for what our marriage failed to be. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. THIS! Times ten! Luckily for me, I haven’t hit “depression” even once yet. Or maybe I have and didn’t recognize it. Or maybe it’s about to hit me like a freight train when I’m not looking. But I have jumped around that list for almost 20 years and am just now starting to pull the rip-chord. And I can credit the fine folks here for opening my eyes, giving me things to think about, and challenging me all along the way.
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 26, 2018 20:59:44 GMT -5
There is indeed a common thread among us ILIASM siblings. We are all grieving the death of our marriage, or what we thought our marriage was, or what we hoped our marriage would be. And so, we go through the typical stages of grief that happen when something is lost (or was never there). We go through - - Denial - Where we stick our head in the sand and pretend it isn't happening. "Everything is great bar the sex" - Anger - This isn't fair, I don't deserve this. Listing the spouses faults etc. - Bargaining - Trying to revive the deal. Scented candling, date nights etc. - Depression - Where the reality hits. - Acceptance - Where you own your situation and accept it for what it is. Once you've got through *denial* (and some people never do) you usually start cycling to and fro between *anger* and *bargaining*. *Depression* has usually reared its' ugly head by this stage (and some people never get through it). The elusive *acceptance* you might get some tantalising glimpses of from time to time during this grieving process, thinking you have got it, only to find that you really haven't. Ones progress through this process is rarely linear. Usually you jump around from one to another then back again and drive yourself nuts. These things are common to us all in this group. We grieve for what our marriage failed to be. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. THIS! Times ten! Luckily for me, I haven’t hit “depression” even once yet. Or maybe I have and didn’t recognize it. Or maybe it’s about to hit me like a freight train when I’m not looking. But I have jumped around that list for almost 20 years and am just now starting to pull the rip-chord. And I can credit the fine folks here for opening my eyes, giving me things to think about, and challenging me all along the way. I think the depression element has kicked in by the time you reach this forum.
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Post by brian on Jan 27, 2018 6:43:10 GMT -5
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. THIS! Times ten! Luckily for me, I haven’t hit “depression” even once yet. Or maybe I have and didn’t recognize it. Or maybe it’s about to hit me like a freight train when I’m not looking. But I have jumped around that list for almost 20 years and am just now starting to pull the rip-chord. And I can credit the fine folks here for opening my eyes, giving me things to think about, and challenging me all along the way. I think the depression element has kicked in by the time you reach this forum. I think it was frustration that led me to this site’s predecessor. Like others, I was looking for understanding and tips on how I might fix it or at least convey my feelings in a way that would be heard and understood by my refuser. Instead, I was led down a path of self-discovery and personal liberation, all of which I am immensely grateful for.
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Post by obobfla on Jan 27, 2018 9:15:35 GMT -5
In my marriage, I experienced a never-ending cycle of resentment and guilt. I resented the fact that I was married to a paranoid person. Since I am not so great of an actor that I could play perfect husband 24/7, my resentment came out often. I would blow up at her or other people often. Then I would feel guilty for my tantrum. After all, my wife was a sweet person who was mentally ill. Her reality was quite different from mine. The cycle took its toll on me. I had to be hospitalized four times for stress-related symptoms. Maybe I should have left earlier, but my wife did need someone to take care of her and our son. As part of my grieving process, I am struggling with the “should I have stayed or left” question. But when I can think clearly, I realize the answer doesn’t matter now. So what does this all have to do with this thread? It goes back to what surfergirl said - you can’t change another person. That was one of the great lessons that I received in a 12-step program. I did my best to help my wife, but I could not cure her of her illness. And even though I saved her life two or three times in the last two years and tried my best to help her recover, she died. But I can change myself to a degree. The resentment and the guilt were my feelings, not hers. Therefore, they were my responsibility. I went through individual therapy, and my program helped carry me through. Honestly, outsourcing helped in my case. I didn’t feel guilty over it. But I was also fortunate not to get pulled into my AF’s problems as I did my wife’s. But the greatest strength came from raising my son and helping other family members of the seriously mentally ill. Right now in the grieving process, I am dealing with the emptiness she left behind. Last night, my son and I went out to dinner and had a good time. But on the way home, I thought “She would have enjoyed this” and started to cry. I realize this is the normal and healthy part of the process. But next comes dealings with the anger and guilt I felt during the marriage. So in the stay or go question, consider the guilt-resentment cycle. If you leave, you will have to deal with lawyers, child custody, financial problems, and rearranging your social life. But if you stay, you will have to deal with the guilt-resentment feelings that will poison the relationships you have with your wife, children, and others. If you do not have the support in place to deal with the cycle, it can be just as expensive as the divorce. Worse, the stress of it could affect your health and become life-threatening.
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Post by tiredoftears on Jan 28, 2018 21:32:36 GMT -5
Got me feelin' like....
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Post by fedupbeingfedup on Jan 29, 2018 18:02:09 GMT -5
Hi just joined tonight. Thank God I am not alone!
Married 7 years on 16th Feb. I never get anything from my wife. No affection, intimacy, sex or gifts...
I have a hotel planned for our anniversary. I would be better buying myself something
I have resorted to sleeping in the kids bed or the soda just to avoid the gut wrenching feeling of lying beside this unresponsive unloving flatmate..
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Post by obobfla on Jan 29, 2018 18:11:18 GMT -5
Hi just joined tonight. Thank God I am not alone! Married 7 years on 16th Feb. I never get anything from my wife. No affection, intimacy, sex or gifts... I have a hotel planned for our anniversary. I would be better buying myself something I have resorted to sleeping in the kids bed or the soda just to avoid the gut wrenching feeling of lying beside this unresponsive unloving flatmate.. Welcome to the group nobody asks to join. I spent many a night on the couch for various reasons: no sex, wife kicked me in her sleep, she insisted on the side nearest the bathroom, and bed wasn’t that comfortable anyway. I suggest keeping the hotel room. Just don’t invite her along!
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 29, 2018 18:12:08 GMT -5
“I have a hotel planned for our anniversary. I would be better buying myself something .”
Why bother? Why not take a solo trip instead of setting yourself up for disappointment. There’s no romance in your marriage and therefore no reason to celebrate V Day.
Have you ever talked to your wife clearly about the SM or do you mainly hint by sleeping in another room?
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Post by h on Jan 29, 2018 18:16:52 GMT -5
Hi just joined tonight. Thank God I am not alone! Married 7 years on 16th Feb. I never get anything from my wife. No affection, intimacy, sex or gifts... I have a hotel planned for our anniversary. I would be better buying myself something I have resorted to sleeping in the kids bed or the soda just to avoid the gut wrenching feeling of lying beside this unresponsive unloving flatmate.. Sorry you have found yourself in need of searching us out. I would say though, if you're not even sharing a bed, cancel the hotel. What's the point? Sounds like a waste of money and you are forced to feel that gut wrenching feeling you otherwise avoid.
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Post by brian on Jan 29, 2018 18:17:41 GMT -5
Hi just joined tonight. Thank God I am not alone! Married 7 years on 16th Feb. I never get anything from my wife. No affection, intimacy, sex or gifts... I have a hotel planned for our anniversary. I would be better buying myself something I have resorted to sleeping in the kids bed or the soda just to avoid the gut wrenching feeling of lying beside this unresponsive unloving flatmate.. Welcome to the group nobody asks to join. I spent many a night on the couch for various reasons: no sex, wife kicked me in her sleep, she insisted on the side nearest the bathroom, and bed wasn’t that comfortable anyway. I suggest keeping the hotel room. Just don’t invite her along! Not just keep the room, but tell her that you’ll be spending the evening drinking with friends and will just crash at a nearby hotel. If she protests by saying it’s your anniversary, just say, “Exactly!”
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