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Post by lostintime on Jan 25, 2018 21:09:16 GMT -5
northstarmom Thank you. That seems to be a correct interpretation. I got played and now I'm embarrassed (and still haven't gotten my panties out of a wad). You are just getting out of a relationship and new to this. There are going to be a few mistakes before you learn to walk. Take it one day at a time and don't dwell on the past. Good luck and know its not your fault for where you are now. Guys I think you are too hard on her.
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Post by flounder on Jan 25, 2018 21:42:22 GMT -5
surfergirl“She lacks confidence, she craves admiration insatiably. She lives on the reflections of herself in the eyes of others. She does not dare to be herself.” – Anais Nin “You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection” – Buddha
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 25, 2018 22:54:35 GMT -5
“Thank you. That seems to be a correct interpretation. I got played and now I'm embarrassed (and still haven't gotten my panties out of a wad).”
I think your mistake is thinking your way out of a sm marriage has to be by finding another man to marry. Until you believe you’d be better off single than staying with your husband, you won’t be ready for divorce.
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Post by Dan on Jan 26, 2018 0:12:11 GMT -5
I think your mistake is thinking your way out of a sm marriage has to be by finding another man to marry. Until you believe you’d be better off single than staying with your husband, you won’t be ready for divorce. surfergirl: It sounds to me like you are struggling with a) how to preserve your marriage and social standing, b) how to get some good-to-great sex in your life, c) how to continue to hold the family together, please your kids, and do the best for them. Here's where I'm pretty much agreeing with northstarmom: a marriage to someone else doesn't solve any of these! (Well, hopefully it would address "b)", but even that is not a guarantee.) All of those things are great. We all want them all, too! I think you are still coming to terms with the fact that you might not be able to accomplish all. There might be some trade-offs. Or some sequencing. PACE YOURSELF as you figure out which things are important to do NEXT, and which to work towards.
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Post by elkclan2 on Jan 26, 2018 7:20:24 GMT -5
surfergirl - don't beat yourself up too much about the naivete, no one in a first affair has any experience of it and few people talk about what it's actually like. As far as I know, neither northstarmom nor baza played the outsourcing card while in their SM. I did. And yes, I did have fantasies about running off with first affair partner. And it ended. I was hurt.
More than anything, here I was with this guy I was attracted to and found fun to talk to and fun to 'root' but he wasn't available and neither was I. I kinda missed the kindness and basic consideration as much as the sex. But it was an important lesson to me and I went on to be in a long term affair with someone else. In fact, someone who I could never marry or be in a proper relationship with because we would have driven each other NUTS. But he was fine as a friend an affair partner and I cared for him a lot.
My marriage ended (separated only) and I was single (though continuing with my affair partner) and dating for two years before I met my current partner. I wouldn't have been ready to be in the relationship I'm in with him now if we'd met while I was still living with my crazy ex or immediately after. It's important to PACE YOURSELF as Dan has said. And it's also important to realise that you cannot, really cannot have it all and so you must prioritise. Health and happiness and sanity surely ought to come tops.
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 26, 2018 7:40:02 GMT -5
Surfergirl,
How old were you when you married? Since you and your husband weee bothvirguns, my impression is you were fairly young. It’s likely that marrying young, growing up in a conservative faith and then having 5 kids and a demanding business have not given you much chance to get to know yourself and the world (including things one learns about by being young, unattached and having time to explore new activities and connect with people with different perspectives).
I think there’s still much for you to learn about yourself and other people. I know you said your therapists have praised your self awareness, but I am wondering if what you heard is what they meant. Sounds like you have done an excellent job of being professionally successful, organizing your large family, and earning money. Still, and very understandably, you have healing to do from your childhood, things to learn about the world, and strength and independence to develop so you don’t think the only way to exit a troubled marriage is by snagging a man equivalent to your husband. I hope you will go back to individual therapy with a person who will allow you to explore your life and beliefs. You could find the best therapist, not the closest one, as your small town may not have many excellent options. I I’ve known people who weekly commuted to big cities to get treatment from an excellent therapist. It also would be important to let your therapist know you turn to drinking when in turmoil.
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 26, 2018 10:02:56 GMT -5
I think your mistake is thinking your way out of a sm marriage has to be by finding another man to marry. Until you believe you’d be better off single than staying with your husband, you won’t be ready for divorce. surfergirl: It sounds to me like you are struggling with a) how to preserve your marriage and social standing, b) how to get some good-to-great sex in your life, c) how to continue to hold the family together, please your kids, and do the best for them. Here's where I'm pretty much agreeing with northstarmom: a marriage to someone else doesn't solve any of these! (Well, hopefully it would address "b)", but even that is not a guarantee.) All of those things are great. We all want them all, too! I think you are still coming to terms with the fact that you might not be able to accomplish all. There might be some trade-offs. Or some sequencing. PACE YOURSELF as you figure out which things are important to do NEXT, and which to work towards. Exactly, everything in life comes at a price and nobody can have it all, the perfect life doesn't exist despite what we see people post on FB. Lol
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Post by surfergirl on Jan 26, 2018 10:42:09 GMT -5
All, I'd apologize for high-jacking the thread, but since my anniversary was yesterday, I don't think it's a high-jack of the "Valentine's Day" idea. Same story, different verse. To answer northstarmom , I was 20 when I married, so it is a completely valid point that I haven't seen the world or know anything of men. As a fresh-from-the-lawyer's-office and never-been-properly-laid woman at 41, I suppose it was somewhat predictable what would happen with my first/only Outsource. I got played like a fiddle and hurt very deeply in the process. I guess I still have not been properly laid, so all the more reason to be more circumspect and careful now. I suppose one thing I can do is own my vulnerability and desperateness-- not so that I feel more shame, but so that I can understand that my decision making process is skewed. Dan has it right, albeit with a few minor tweaks. I want to: a) get some good-to-great sex before age 50 (the year my youngest leaves the house and I'll be free from my obligations) b) not have my kids mad at me (which for THEM, means preserving the marriage facade) I could be a jerk, I suppose, and make life miserable so that the kids would WANT us to get divorced. But it's just not in me. My husband and I get along and give the kids a good atmosphere. We do loving behavior toward one another during the day, so it's not tense. When I walk away, it will be a BOMB, not something the kids saw coming (even though we told them when I filed--our behavior now gives the appearance that things are happy, happy). I've heard all the "don't kid yourself" stories, but there's nothing you can say to convince me that my kids wouldn't hate me. I have a ton of info directly from them that says otherwise. So yes, basically, my kids are holding my sex life hostage. Which is why outsourcing was my preferred choice, which is also why I have my legal stuff in order. But none of it feels good. It all feels like shit. I just want to make a good decision. I made the decision to STAY for the last 20 years, and I hate myself for it. So I want to make decisions now that I won't hate myself for in another 10 years. But all of it just sounds like: Do you prefer to die via drowning, arsenic, or fire?
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 26, 2018 10:51:53 GMT -5
All, I'd apologize for high-jacking the thread, but since my anniversary was yesterday, I don't think it's a high-jack of the "Valentine's Day" idea. Same story, different verse. To answer northstarmom , I was 20 when I married, so it is a completely valid point that I haven't seen the world or know anything of men. As a fresh-from-the-lawyer's-office and never-been-properly-laid woman at 41, I suppose it was somewhat predictable what would happen with my first/only Outsource. I got played like a fiddle and hurt very deeply in the process. I guess I still have not been properly laid, so all the more reason to be more circumspect and careful now. I suppose one thing I can do is own my vulnerability and desperateness-- not so that I feel more shame, but so that I can understand that my decision making process is skewed. Dan has it right, albeit with a few minor tweaks. I want to: a) get some good-to-great sex before age 50 (the year my youngest leaves the house and I'll be free from my obligations) b) not have my kids mad at me (which for THEM, means preserving the marriage facade) I could be a jerk, I suppose, and make life miserable so that the kids would WANT us to get divorced. But it's just not in me. My husband and I get along and give the kids a good atmosphere. We do loving behavior toward one another during the day, so it's not tense. When I walk away, it will be a BOMB, not something the kids saw coming (even though we told them when I filed--our behavior now gives the appearance that things are happy, happy). I've heard all the "don't kid yourself" stories, but there's nothing you can say to convince me that my kids wouldn't hate me. I have a ton of info directly from them that says otherwise. So yes, basically, my kids are holding my sex life hostage. Which is why outsourcing was my preferred choice, which is also why I have my legal stuff in order. But none of it feels good. It all feels like shit. I just want to make a good decision. I made the decision to STAY for the last 20 years, and I hate myself for it. So I want to make decisions now that I won't hate myself for in another 10 years. But all of it just sounds like: Do you prefer to die via drowning, arsenic, or fire? Your children aren’t holding anything hostage surfergirl. Your husband is. He is the person who doesn’t want to bed you and make love to his wife. If you chose to leave, he is the person who should have an adult conversation with your children and tell them that he cannot provide their Mum with the love that a marriage needs in order to flourish. He doesn’t have to say it’s about sex, he should be mature enough and responsible enough to tell them that he fails you as a husband every single day and it’s his own fault. I’ve always said that if you cheat and get caught - you are the bad guy If you leave and hurt poor old Mum or dad, the kids will invariably feel sympathy for the poor old parent who has been left. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. It’s why many ref users have you by the short and curly’s.
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Post by surfergirl on Jan 26, 2018 10:56:41 GMT -5
FANTASTIC point.
My husband won't own it, though, because he is doing THE RESET. But yes, your point is very correct.
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Post by Dan on Jan 26, 2018 10:57:24 GMT -5
So yes, basically, my kids are holding my sex life hostage. Here's where you need to flip the script. YOU are in the position to figure out your options. YOU are in the position to rank order your priorities. To a large extent, YOU can decide what you do NEXT, and what are the things you do after that in coming months or years. If you decide that there is a certain moral goodness and spiritual value to yourself for "being there" for your kids, great. Maybe you also feel the ONLY way to "be there" for them is to live in the house with them and their father, and keep up appearances. If that means your sex life takes a hit... that is a decision you can make. There are other decisions you can make, all of which play off various trade offs. Try not feel sorry for yourself: make a decision and own it. Don't consider this some sort of hostage taking! If at some point you realize you could have made a better decision: change course! Now... did I take my own advice? Well, I didn't have that advice when I was your age and in your situation. I've come to the "I own my decision to stay while the kids are still home" only about two years ago. I filled MANY years with various attempts to accommodate the SM and soothe my "sorry for myself" mood. PS: Don't try to make a FAST decision. Try to make a GOOD decision. You aren't trying to beat anyone to market, here.
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 26, 2018 11:04:06 GMT -5
So yes, basically, my kids are holding my sex life hostage. Here's where you need to flip the script. YOU are in the position to figure out your options. YOU are in the position to rank order your priorities. To a large extent, YOU can decide what you do NEXT, and what are the things you do after that in coming months or years. If you decide that there is a certain moral goodness and spiritual value to yourself for "being there" for your kids, great. Maybe you also feel the ONLY way to "be there" for them is to live in the house with them and their father, and keep up appearances. If that means your sex life takes a hit... that is a decision you can make. There are other decisions you can make, all of which play off various trade offs. Try not feel sorry for yourself: make a decision and own it. Don't consider this some sort of hostage taking! If at some point you realize you could have made a better decision: change course! Now... did I take my own advice? Well, I didn't have that advice when I was your age and in your situation. I've come to the "I own my decision to stay while the kids are still home" only about two years ago. I filled MANY years with various attempts to accommodate the SM. PS: Don't try to make a FAST decision. Try to make a GOOD decision. You aren't trying to beat anyone to market, here. Great advice!
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Post by Dan on Jan 26, 2018 11:13:29 GMT -5
If you chose to leave, he is the person who should have an adult conversation with your children and tell them that he cannot provide their Mum with the love that a marriage needs in order to flourish. He doesn’t have to say it’s about sex, he should be mature enough and responsible enough to tell them that he fails you as a husband every single day and it’s his own fault. This sounds good only in a delicious, self-indulgent, "vent your anger but only in your own head" sort of way. Isn't it tantamount to "throw your spouse under the bus in front of the kids"? My view is: my wife will have her impression of why I left, and I will have mine. It is each our own prerogative to recap that as we see fit to anyone we know -- including mutual friends and family... and even the kids. I happen to like and trust my relationship with each of my kids, and I think each relationship will weather a divorce adequately or better. Granted, mine are in the 17 to 26-year old range, and my situation is different that surfergirl's, or anyone's.
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 26, 2018 11:41:05 GMT -5
If you chose to leave, he is the person who should have an adult conversation with your children and tell them that he cannot provide their Mum with the love that a marriage needs in order to flourish. He doesn’t have to say it’s about sex, he should be mature enough and responsible enough to tell them that he fails you as a husband every single day and it’s his own fault. This sounds good only in a delicious, self-indulgent, "vent your anger but only in your own head" sort of way. Isn't it tantamount to "throw your spouse under the bus in front of the kids"? My view is: my wife will have her impression of why I left, and I will have mine. It is each our own prerogative to recap that as we see fit to anyone we know -- including mutual friends and family... and even the kids. I happen to like and trust my relationship with each of my kids, and I think each relationship will weather a divorce adequately or better. Granted, mine are in the 17 to 26-year old range, and my situation is different that surfergirl's, or anyone's. It’s not throwing anyone under the bus. Far from it! Personally I think it’s called ‘being responsible’ in terms of understanding why the marriage has broken down and surfergirl husband is clearly the catalyst for the breakdown or potential breakdown. Again this is another example in my opinion of giving refusers an easy ride, a get out of jail free card. Here you go. Imagine you have a scenario where 2 people have a great marriage. It involves everything that a good marriage should. Yet after 10 years wife finds out that husband has had extra marital activities whilst on business trips. 5 or 6 times per year, every year for 10!. Wife confronts husband who confesses. He did it because he could get away with it. She divorces and tells the children (who are mature enough to be told) why Mum and dad are splitting up the family. Surely that is not ‘throwing anyone under the bus’.
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Post by surfergirl on Jan 26, 2018 11:49:11 GMT -5
If you chose to leave, he is the person who should have an adult conversation with your children and tell them that he cannot provide their Mum with the love that a marriage needs in order to flourish. He doesn’t have to say it’s about sex, he should be mature enough and responsible enough to tell them that he fails you as a husband every single day and it’s his own fault. This sounds good only in a delicious, self-indulgent, "vent your anger but only in your own head" sort of way. Isn't it tantamount to "throw your spouse under the bus in front of the kids"? My view is: my wife will have her impression of why I left, and I will have mine. It is each our own prerogative to recap that as we see fit to anyone we know -- including mutual friends and family... and even the kids. I happen to like and trust my relationship with each of my kids, and I think each relationship will weather a divorce adequately or better. Granted, mine are in the 17 to 26-year old range, and my situation is different that surfergirl 's, or anyone's. Either way, it doesn't matter. It's a nice thought, and I've tried working with him on The Presentation of the Story. He won't own fault in front of the kids, and if there's ONE THING I FUCKING KNOW WITHOUT A DOUBT and everyone else here is in varying stages of ownership of this same thing: it's that you can not control another person. Now, I do believe my case is exceptional, in that, my Husband agrees that our marriage has been (a) sexless and (b) entirely because of his own doing. But getting him to own any fault in front of the kids, even as a softened G-rated version, it will never ever happen.
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