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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 16, 2018 12:46:26 GMT -5
I'm in a "close separation". I sometimes find it difficult to find a diplomatic word here, but in reference to the kids, I would often say "their mother." Ex-spouse or former spouse implies an emotional attachment that I don't care for, so I often just use her name if the relationship is known. An ex-spouse is its own kind of familial relationship that is appointed by circumstance later in life, like becoming an aunt. I tend to think of her as an extended member of my family --something akin to an in-law in which she is is a permanent external familial relation (at least until the kids are grown) - who I might not necessarily be well aligned with, but who I'm invested in maintaining relations that are as positive as can be. This is how my husband described his ex-wife to me when we first met and I have to say, I liked it because it showed his emotional attachment to her was nil - and what attachment is there is only because of his kids and the fact she is important to them. His exact words to me were, "She's the mother of my kids, not even an 'ex' anymore." As for my ex, in the end we were roommates/business partner and had zero fun together. I pursued my fun/friends and he pursued his (which, was actually all from the couch on the tv in some form or another). With my divorce coming in days this is how I already feel going into it. " She is the BIOLOGICAL mother of my children (I think in the same light when it comes to the adopted ones)". That's it. AND that is all it has to be. I like the thought of a distant relative.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 16, 2018 12:58:36 GMT -5
Not to beat a dead horse or sound like a broken record, but.... I think that by using the tittle "roommate" and/or "business partner", we give our spouses far to much credit. We are being too understanding, lenient, and giving, again.
If you had room mates like I did in your younger days, you shared chores together, discussed the opposite sex together, took care of each other when sick, did a lot of laughing and fun things together, met each others family and friends, worked out together, traveled together, you where there for each other. You had all the friendship parts a marriage should have minus the sex and intimacy. Many people start off posting that way, and then shortly more of the realization strikes that, "that friendship ,respect, trust ,died with the sex and intimacy."
The same with a business partner. That needs trust, dedication, loads of open communication, and a shared agreement toward risk taking. Hard to do when one partner demands calling all the shots, wants no risk at all, and eliminates your voice when it comes to anything regarding finances, and decision making. That is not a business PARTNER. Neither is it a marriage.
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Post by baza on Jan 16, 2018 21:43:00 GMT -5
Just ralised that I hadn't responded myself. Back in the day, my missus was my "Financial Partner" and I think that was an accurate descriptive.
And fwiw, she was very good in this role.
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Post by choosinghappy on Jan 17, 2018 9:55:44 GMT -5
I think of him as a (non-sexual and affection-free) "partner" and "co-parent". I can't even use the term "friend". I would prefer to spend time with my actual friends than with him now because then at least I have some fun.
Interesting side note: In one of our conversations, H made the (correct) observation that I am the most myself when I am with my sister. The fact that he recognizes that I am not the most myself when he and I are together is pretty telling to me.
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Post by Dan on Jan 17, 2018 10:06:42 GMT -5
Interesting side note: In one of our conversations, H made the (correct) observation that I am the most myself when I am with my sister. The fact that he recognizes that I am not the most myself when he and I are together is pretty telling to me. One the side-benefits of seeking a side-relationship many years ago was that I found I was able to "be myself" online and in person with who I was meeting much more easily than when I was with my wife. Crazy, no? But in my marriage, I had built this cocoon around me of "the husband I think she wants/needs me to be"... which was intended to lower marital friction, but was in fact smothering me. Online, I could just put it out there: this is who I am, my marriage isn't so good, these are the things like like (sexual and non-sexual), this is what I'm looking for. And to my amazement, I met women who were OK with all of that! The fact that I had some great sex here and there was great, but the affirmation that I can "really be me" was -- basically -- life changing.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Jan 19, 2018 20:51:06 GMT -5
Narcissistic shrew and all around cold bitch. Her self righteousness could make the gods blush. Friend? Not even close.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2018 18:23:31 GMT -5
Narcissistic shrew and all around cold bitch. Her self righteousness could make the gods blush. Friend? Not even close. But tell us how you REALLY feel.
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Post by M2G on Jan 21, 2018 9:53:41 GMT -5
Housemate. Live-in Co-parent. Critic. Moral bludgeon. "Moral Bludgeon" LMAO Best friend yes but I can't call it a marriage. It's a marriage now only on a piece of paper. We have fun, we like a lot of the same things, I enjoy talking with her, we're very good at taking care of outside issues not involving the marriage, etc, but without intimacy I have a tough time some days not filling up with resentment. Sure, her body is her's and I firmly believe "no means no," but she just doesn't seem to care what that does to me - and that her not caring is the source of the resentment - it's not just the lack of sex - it's about her not giving a rat's ass about what I'm going through on a daily basis, minute-by-minute most times. If she really cared, she would TRY something, but no - not happening at any level. No doctors, no therapy, no permission to outsource, no starfish, no duty sex (not that I want those) - not a goddamn thing except enforced silence and "grin and bear it celibacy boy!" Neener neener and nanny nanny I gots a va-jay-jay and you can't have none - not mine or anybody else's!!! "No you're never gonna get it" so goes the song. End of rant. Please tip your waiter.
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Post by saarinista on Jan 27, 2018 2:53:49 GMT -5
M2G what's wrong with your "wife?" that's mean! It's her body but the marriage is both of yours. Did she agree to some sort of no sex agreement when you married? Most expect to have some sex during marriage. that's just ridiculous how she's a acting. what is wrong with some women? that's cruel on her part.
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Post by M2G on Jan 27, 2018 8:16:14 GMT -5
M2G what's wrong with your "wife?" that's mean! It's her body but the marriage is both of yours. Did she agree to some sort of no sex agreement when you married? Most expect to have some sex during marriage. that's just ridiculous how she's a acting. what is wrong with some women? that's cruel on her part. Thanks saarinista - for that Funny thing is that we were pretty hyper-sexual at the beginning. Several friendships we had with both male and female had a strong likelihood to turn sexual is one or both of us liked the person. threesomes, or sometimes one-on-one apart from each other. Swingers, not exactly: no robes and lotions and group parties - we never thought of it as "being in the lifestyle" just did what we wanted to do and were damned happy about everything. Shit went south little by little until one day I ended up here.
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Post by saarinista on Jan 27, 2018 19:37:53 GMT -5
M2G
Hmmm. that's interesting. Did you guys have children at some point? If so, maybe she's feeling like sex-at least the more "robust" sort you all were enjoying previously-is inconsistent with parenting, and thus has tuned out entirely. Or maybe she's just burned out from the "robust" activity previously? (One would think she could rest up, though...)
Have you talked with her about the previous activity level and requested a more "average" sexual life at a one on one level? That would be a cakewalk to me at least. I've barely been able to manage one person at a time. I imagine you have. Sorry, I was lazy and didn't backcheck your profile. In any event, maybe she is embarrassed about not being able to still to the multiparty type sex life any longer but can't express herself. Ergo, it's up to you to bring up the topic.
If none of the above applies, I would suggest getting therapy on your own if she won't go. I think it's cruel to deprive your spouse and not even talk about why you are doing so. You both deserve a more honest and candid relationship that you're getting. We all do.
Just some thoughts.
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Post by M2G on Jan 27, 2018 23:54:52 GMT -5
No kids, neither one of us wanted them. A lot of stuff has happened, biggest two being menopause and a sexual assault by her adoptive "father."
The mayhem kinda sex we were doing for a while faded out of the picture once we pulled away from most of our friendships, mostly my W's doing as I must have a higher tolerance when it comes to (perceived) bad behavior. Following that, we were exclusive as things tapered off to nothing.
Doing my own therapy at this point, for me, and W doing the same too but we work at different paces. Not seeing the SM ever ending at this point. I love her very much still, though no longer in a romantic way.
However, the dalliances of last week have helped quite a bit. Last day and a half at home have been great. I find I can compartmentalize the now mostly platonic relationship with my W, and keep the other activities as something separate - so my resentment level is way down to nearly nonexistent now that I have an outlet for my desires, and need for intimate touching. Real passionate kissing is something I've been longing for, for many years (almost 7 now).
The other women (one married and cheating, the other married and playing with Hubby's support) each get a small piece of my heart as well, as (I believe) it should be. For sure I am sharing them with others, and that's totally OK with me also, since there's no expectations of exclusivity on anyone's part.
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 28, 2018 8:00:49 GMT -5
“Real passionate kissing is something I've been longing for, for many years (almost 7 now).”
I remember my first kiss with my refuser x. It was very lacking. I naively assumed I could teach him. I endured 36 years of mere chicken pecks. First time I kissed Post sm lover, it was a real kiss. Perfect. Hot. Still are 5 years later....losing is so important and is such a good measure of compatibility.
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Post by M2G on Jan 28, 2018 11:14:02 GMT -5
“Real passionate kissing is something I've been longing for, for many years (almost 7 now).” I remember my first kiss with my refuser x. It was very lacking. I naively assumed I could teach him. I endured 36 years of mere chicken pecks. First time I kissed Post sm lover, it was a real kiss. Perfect. Hot. Still are 5 years later....losing is so important and is such a good measure of compatibility. Nice. My wife and I used to totally lose ourselves in kissing, way back. Now it's as you describe with your hubby 1. I try to to gently grab a lip it's like I hit her with a tazer. Night 1 was a better kisser - you can tell when a person is 100% involved. Night two - very good also but somewhat passive. Either way I went away very happy.
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Post by worksforme2 on Jan 28, 2018 12:13:05 GMT -5
I would say we are still friends. I see her on a regular basis at church and occasionally at a get together somewhere. We used to have some fun. We took in am movie or had dinner out or visited a local winery when out motorcycling. On a couple/3 occasions we had sex, so there you go. If one of us needs a favor from the other it usually happens. But we haven't dated in almost a yr. and definitely no sex, though I still get her tits out and play with them every chance I get in the hopes my timing will be right at some point. Maybe next time her tits are out I will see if I can get her pants off and perhaps masturbate her a bit. If I get that far I will try to get a few licks in. That would be fun.
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