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Post by lwoetin on Jan 18, 2018 16:52:17 GMT -5
Yes. But she restrains herself so the fun doesn't culminate to the bedroom. Her muscles are naturally so tense. She needs to learn to relax and surrender. Here is the crisis of Empiricism in the approach to diagnosing a sexless marriage. 100% of her marital interaction with you indicates restraint and tension so you both assume that's just the way she is generally. It is impractical to test whether her traits of restraint, tension, and inability to surrender persists apart from her marriage to this partner while still being engaged in a monogamous relationship with him. I don't see any good in finding her a new lover. If she is dissatisfied with what I offer, she can say so. She prefers a sexless marriage. I don't. So a logical solution is for her to surrender half the time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2018 17:09:55 GMT -5
We do lots of things together that we both enjoy. Walks, kayaking, camping in our vintage camper, movie nights, our hobby farm, gardening (her), canning (me). It's a good life and I wouldn't change much of it so there you go. Lovely days spent doing things we enjoy together just don't end in the sack. I am grateful that the SM tension has been relieved (because I gave up "talking about it"). Passionate? No, but mostly pretty good. She just doesn't do intimate.
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listedship
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Age Range: 41-45
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Post by listedship on Jan 18, 2018 17:38:14 GMT -5
Do things together... this was when my eyes really opened. We traveled on two separate trips. Little to no intimacy, no sex. Little conversation. She would go buy something, as that is how she makes herself happy. I would take pictures, read signs, look at things, alone. I came to realize that I had NO pictures of me on our travels. I began to realize that the reason I feel alone, is because I WAS. 26 years I was the one reaching for her hand when walking, I was the one meeting people and making it look like we were a "normal" couple. I was the one who felt like I was missing out on something. I realized she had never brought this as a complaint. I have since backed away, substantially. My plan is in motion. I know I can not change her. I was listening to a person I respect who said, look at the last decade of your marriage. The next will look the same unless YOU make a change. This was to be inspirational, but was more sobering for me. I do have to make a change. Find someone I want to be with, who wants to do things with me, whether it is read a book, or have sex. My W wants to do neither with me. I must make the change.
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Post by baza on Jan 18, 2018 17:54:53 GMT -5
Although progress is rarely linear, in a textbook scenario it goes - #1 - get out of ILIASM shithole #2 - sort your own shit out #3 - present the best possible version of yourself to the world and see what happens.
Ignore stage #2 at your peril.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 18, 2018 19:53:01 GMT -5
Here is the crisis of Empiricism in the approach to diagnosing a sexless marriage. 100% of her marital interaction with you indicates restraint and tension so you both assume that's just the way she is generally. It is impractical to test whether her traits of restraint, tension, and inability to surrender persists apart from her marriage to this partner while still being engaged in a monogamous relationship with him. I don't see any good in finding her a new lover. If she is dissatisfied with what I offer, she can say so. She prefers a sexless marriage. I don't. So a logical solution is for her to surrender half the time. I'm not proposing that anyone go shopping for a replacement partner to test the hypothesis. I'm suggesting that the assumption that one's partner is aesexual, or perfectly happy celibate, is not really something that most people get to test until after they split or until an affair happens. If someone's strategy for managing, enduring, or addressing the problem begins with the wrong premise, then that strategy is unlikely to be suited to the problem. All that's really known in 99% of these situations is that one partner doesn't want sexual intimacy with the other. Once the separation happens, I've seen plenty of evidence that the "averse" partner ends up moving on to a sexually robust relationship with someone else.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2018 21:15:52 GMT -5
We do lots of things together that we both enjoy. Walks, kayaking, camping in our vintage camper, movie nights, our hobby farm, gardening (her), canning (me). It's a good life and I wouldn't change much of it so there you go. Lovely days spent doing things we enjoy together just don't end in the sack. I am grateful that the SM tension has been relieved (because I gave up "talking about it"). Passionate? No, but mostly pretty good. She just doesn't do intimate. I really admire how you've made peace with this. I'm reading "The All or Nothing Marriage" by Eli Finkel right now. His premise is that we should strive for a "good enough" marriage and lower our expectations. It's an interesting read and very much questions the cultural ideal (urban myth) of a marriage that fulfills us in every way - emotionally, intellectually, financially, sexually, etc. He essentially says to pick what you most need or want out of your marriage and let the rest go. Essentially, he says, we can't have it all. Some marriages are abusive and need to end. Other people will decide that sex is the one thing they really need in a marriage and they'll leave to get it. Still others have so many deal-breakers the marriage can never be "good enough." But some of us just might have a "good enough" marriage already and decide to stick it out. At that point, the struggle stops and the living begins. At least that's what I'm thinking lately.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2018 12:09:34 GMT -5
We do lots of things together that we both enjoy. Walks, kayaking, camping in our vintage camper, movie nights, our hobby farm, gardening (her), canning (me). It's a good life and I wouldn't change much of it so there you go. Lovely days spent doing things we enjoy together just don't end in the sack. I am grateful that the SM tension has been relieved (because I gave up "talking about it"). Passionate? No, but mostly pretty good. She just doesn't do intimate. I really admire how you've made peace with this. I'm reading "The All or Nothing Marriage" by Eli Finkel right now. His premise is that we should strive for a "good enough" marriage and lower our expectations. It's an interesting read and very much questions the cultural ideal (urban myth) of a marriage that fulfills us in every way - emotionally, intellectually, financially, sexually, etc. He essentially says to pick what you most need or want out of your marriage and let the rest go. Essentially, he says, we can't have it all. Some marriages are abusive and need to end. Other people will decide that sex is the one thing they really need in a marriage and they'll leave to get it. Still others have so many deal-breakers the marriage can never be "good enough." But some of us just might have a "good enough" marriage already and decide to stick it out. At that point, the struggle stops and the living begins. At least that's what I'm thinking lately. I'm not sure it's admirable but it works. I'm here on this forum so it still hurts sometimes but I stopped taking it personally which is what leads to long car rides with no conversation, taking days off without your spouse, etc. that have all been expressed here. One of the posts had a #1, 2 and 3. #1 was leave and #2 was get your shit together. Luckily for me, my marriage is pretty good so I was able to switch those two and get my own internal shit together first.
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Post by lwoetin on Jan 19, 2018 16:02:09 GMT -5
I don't see any good in finding her a new lover. If she is dissatisfied with what I offer, she can say so. She prefers a sexless marriage. I don't. So a logical solution is for her to surrender half the time. I'm not proposing that anyone go shopping for a replacement partner to test the hypothesis. I'm suggesting that the assumption that one's partner is aesexual, or perfectly happy celibate, is not really something that most people get to test until after they split or until an affair happens. If someone's strategy for managing, enduring, or addressing the problem begins with the wrong premise, then that strategy is unlikely to be suited to the problem. All that's really known in 99% of these situations is that one partner doesn't want sexual intimacy with the other. Once the separation happens, I've seen plenty of evidence that the "averse" partner ends up moving on to a sexually robust relationship with someone else. Even if such is possible...but I really prefer a monogamous marriage. It's been effective for thousands of years, since Moses came down from the mountain with a tablet....
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Post by novembercomingfire on Jan 19, 2018 20:48:52 GMT -5
Not at all. In fact I think I hate her and i cannot wait until i never have to see her or speak to her again.
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Post by mescaline on Jan 20, 2018 13:03:13 GMT -5
We have fun with the kids, but I avoid being alone with her whenever possible so having fun in that respect is limited. So, no, I don't have fun with her anymore.
Withdrawal does have the positive effect of allowing me to focus on myself and my own happiness, I guess that is all part of the process of ending the emotional bond with a spouse.
It's interesting viewing it from an objective perspective sometimes, rather than being too subjective.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 24, 2018 13:53:51 GMT -5
I giggle every time I read the headline. I keep reading it like, "10 Things You Can Do With Your Old CDs"
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Post by saarinista on Feb 1, 2018 18:15:04 GMT -5
To me, "date night" is so contrived for married people. One of the main reasons I got married was to avoid dating! LOL. I mean, seriously, I get the concept of date night, but it just seems weird when you've been married for 20 years or so to call it that. FWIW: I think "date night" is not for married people... it is for married people with kids. "Get out of the house, spend some time with each other; talking about the kids and household to-do lists is strictly off limits." Those were pretty much the exact instructions of our marital therapist. Well, that might be another reason my marriage is strange. We don't have kids. Every night COULD be date night, but when that's the case, perhaps dating is pointless. Or something. I get it. I was mainly attempting to be snarky.
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Post by saarinista on Feb 1, 2018 18:23:48 GMT -5
Although progress is rarely linear, in a textbook scenario it goes - #1 - get out of ILIASM shithole #2 - sort your own shit out #3 - present the best possible version of yourself to the world and see what happens. Ignore stage #2 at your peril. Good advice. If I were trying to be linear (and I rarely am) I might suggest that #2 should precede #1 and might actually then lead to getting out of the ILIASM pit. But sorting stuff out needs to happen throughout life. It's just that in my case, I have to have my thoughts and plans straight before I can act. Sometimes, I admit this paralyzes me, but a LITTLE shit sorting prior to leaving can't hurt. if possible.
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Post by LEXUS46 on Feb 5, 2018 16:13:45 GMT -5
We are good travel partners. But, sharing space with him is getting harder each day. Majority of the time he irritates me.
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Post by flyingsolo on Feb 5, 2018 16:28:31 GMT -5
But I'm so over "date night". There are so many things I have wanted to do together like cook together, listen to podcasts together, play music together, maybe go volunteer for Habitat for Humanity together, go out dancing or take a class... but they just haven't transpired, even with years of gentle cajoling, and the occasional outright begging. So the closeness it could have brought, likewise, didn't materialize. To me, "date night" is so contrived for married people. One of the main reasons I got married was to avoid dating! LOL. I mean, seriously, I get the concept of date night, but it just seems weird when you've been married for 20 years or so to call it that. Well, we could call it "We're going out to dinner or (insert activity here), but I'm still not getting laid by my wife night", but that doesn't have quite the politically correct ring to it.
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