|
Post by Dan on Jan 12, 2018 14:04:38 GMT -5
... he pulled out all the stops... 2 carat diamond ring Did you point out: "I'm looking for a husband, sex-partner, dear friend, confidant, lover. I want someone who will travel WITH me in this journey of sexploration. Sex isn't our entire life together, but it must be part of it. And, to be with me, it needs to be a big part, or at least really earnest part. Forget the diamond: I don't want a rock on my finger that outwardly stakes your claim that 'I am yours'... I want you to TAKE ME." At some point you may get to "I don't think we want the same things. I'm going to start to make different plans." And: "Next time you are served with divorce papers, I won't be retracting them. Then it will not a bargaining chip; it will be a notice that your life has changed, by me exiting it."
|
|
|
Post by doneanddone on Jan 12, 2018 14:39:11 GMT -5
Welcome to the party surfergirl....
I joined last year but took a 6 months hiatus after i got the ol' snip snip to satisfy the #1 repetitive reason I was given by my refuser, accidental pregnancy. So needless to say that the first couple of times post vasectomy were not anything to be note worthy and as the matter of fact, it's been quite disappointing now knowing all along that it wasn't going to get better. The one reason I did go through with it was knowing that if there were to ever be another opportunity to be fully satisfied again that the "accidental pregnancy" issue is now put to bed for good.....
I don't know what I'm chasing these days other than my own sanity. This forum and the people I have met and connected with have given me a great outlook for down the road. So just know whatever your questions or concerns are just throw it out there and someone on here surely will have some insight for you. Hope that helps......
|
|
|
Post by surfergirl on Jan 12, 2018 14:42:27 GMT -5
Regarding the "reset" -- you guys are literally BLOWING MY MIND with this. I just don't even know what to do with it.
I've been in this cycle for 21 years (happy anniversary to me this month), and knew it was jacked up, but you just gave me great clarity on THE RESET.
I just don't know what to do with that. I'm stunned.
He'd deny and argue his way out of it if I called him on it. But wow, just wow. He's planning a getaway next week because he knows I'm DONE (as evidenced by my lack of fighting or caring-- at least before, I'd beg, whine, complain, mope, and do BAD BEHAVIOR). I just don't even care now. This year, I've done the reverse refusal thing (something else you guys have enlightened me on), and now it's my fault because I've stopped trying. Seriously, the guy I married is NOT GAY or FEMININE, but it's like he has all the tricks mastered.
@dan -- yes, I've pointed that out. Being clear and direct are not my weak points. (I have different problems.)
|
|
|
Post by h on Jan 12, 2018 14:47:28 GMT -5
If you know that it's all tricks and no sincerity, you have a better handle on it than some of us. It seems fairly cut and dry. Maybe your H is an asexual and just doesn't want sex at all. Have you asked him that?
|
|
|
Post by rejected101 on Jan 12, 2018 14:47:38 GMT -5
Regarding the "reset" -- you guys are literally BLOWING MY MIND with this. I just don't even know what to do with it. I've been in this cycle for 21 years (happy anniversary to me this month), and knew it was jacked up, but you just gave me great clarity on THE RESET. I just don't know what to do with that. I'm stunned. He'd deny and argue his way out of it if I called him on it. But wow, just wow. He's planning a getaway next week because he knows I'm DONE (as evidenced by my lack of fighting or caring-- at least before, I'd beg, whine, complain, mope, and do BAD BEHAVIOR). I just don't even care now. This year, I've done the reverse refusal thing (something else you guys have enlightened me on), and now it's my fault because I've stopped trying. Seriously, the guy I married is NOT GAY or FEMININE, but it's like he has all the tricks mastered. @dan -- yes, I've pointed that out. Being clear and direct are not my weak points. (I have different problems.) You won’t win I’m afraid. He will never offer the hot sex that you seek so your choice is the same as everyone’s. Stay and suck it up, stay and cheat, leave and pursue a new partner. Each have their own positives and each have their own negatives. Why is an affair partner not an option by the way?
|
|
|
Post by doneanddone on Jan 12, 2018 14:55:47 GMT -5
Regarding the "reset" -- you guys are literally BLOWING MY MIND with this. I just don't even know what to do with it. I've been in this cycle for 21 years (happy anniversary to me this month), and knew it was jacked up, but you just gave me great clarity on THE RESET. I just don't know what to do with that. I'm stunned. He'd deny and argue his way out of it if I called him on it. But wow, just wow. He's planning a getaway next week because he knows I'm DONE (as evidenced by my lack of fighting or caring-- at least before, I'd beg, whine, complain, mope, and do BAD BEHAVIOR). I just don't even care now. This year, I've done the reverse refusal thing (something else you guys have enlightened me on), and now it's my fault because I've stopped trying. Seriously, the guy I married is NOT GAY or FEMININE, but it's like he has all the tricks mastered. @dan -- yes, I've pointed that out. Being clear and direct are not my weak points. (I have different problems.) Funny thing is I'm right there with you in regards to the lack of fighting or caring. I've had to come to terms with myself as be the counter refuser - at least as of late. If you would have asked me 3 months ago I would have said Hell No but now....yeah, I am, and I don't feel bad probably like she never felt bad every time she refused me. It takes a minute to sink in or it did for me but I'm good with it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 15:23:23 GMT -5
This is all stunningly familiar for many of us here. Sexless wedding night, why chasing, reset sex, counter refusing, ad infinitum. My heart goes out to you because there are no easy answers and all three of the iliasm possibilities (leave, stay, cheat) have consequences. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Sex is either important or it isn't. A refuser can't claim it's not important if they so vehemently avoid it. I once pointed that out to my wife and she......drumroll.......agreed. It didn't change anything but the games stopped.
However, once you recognize these patterns then the choices become clear. Not easy but clear. I chose to stay with wide open eyes although I close them sometimes to take a break from the wrenching reality.
We're all pulling for you to find your way forward.
|
|
|
Post by DryCreek on Jan 12, 2018 15:53:01 GMT -5
He'd deny and argue his way out of it if I called him on it. But wow, just wow. He's planning a getaway next week because he knows I'm DONE (as evidenced by my lack of fighting or caring-- at least before, I'd beg, whine, complain, mope, and do BAD BEHAVIOR). Give him credit for noticing enough to take action, but it doesn't take a getaway to have intimacy - a touch at 3am should do the trick. It seems like he thinks a holiday together is a substitute. He might well argue it - he may not recognize his own behavior. Many live in their own reality when it comes to intimacy; they'll say it's been weeks when it's been months. It's a sad state when you begin tracking the last time you had sex, a kiss, or a hug, but it sure helps counteract their gaslighting of the facts. Or, he may be aware and savvy enough not to admit to the truth, knowing the ramifications of giving you clarity. Much easier to leave you twisting in the wind because that doesn't disrupt his life. One of the conclusions here has been that motivating your spouse through fear (divorce, affair, etc.) isn't the solution. It elicits a reaction (though clearly yours didn't take it seriously at first), but that response isn't sincere; it's survival instinct. As soon as the threat has passed, they resume their true behavior. Even if it were effective long-term, you'd always wonder if they were being genuine or if the other shoe was going to drop and you'd find them leaving you in a few years. The odds of divorcing today are higher than 50% - a rational person knows that (in)actions have consequences. They shouldn't have to be overtly threatened before they're motivated to heed their spouse's pleas, and they sure as hell know better than to let their behavior revert. But they do. Not only are they disinterested in intimacy, they're so disinterested that they'll let it put their lifestyle at risk. They can remember to pay the mortgage or take the trash bin to the curb (because, hey, that's important!), but not to fuck their spouse. It's unbelievable.
|
|
|
Post by wastedyears on Jan 12, 2018 16:10:24 GMT -5
IMO many of our refusers suffer from a deep rooted fear of intimacy. They do not like to feel vulnerable. It has nothing to do with their partner, and everything to do with coping mechanisms that can go back as far as childhood. Unfortunately, in order to change they would first have to admit that they have a problem, and then it would take a lot of individual therapy for them to overcome their fears and anxieties. They are not usually consciously aware that they even have an issue.
It is him, not you. It is unlikely that he will ever change. The only why chasing that I feel is productive at this point, would be "why did I stay in this codependent relationship for so long, even though it was hurting me", and "how can I prevent this from happening in a future relationship"?
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Jan 12, 2018 16:47:24 GMT -5
He's planning a getaway next week because he knows I'm DONE. My advice: don't go. I don't see the point. It won't have the outcome he is hoping for. At best it will just annoy you -- to see his groveling/pandering with all this newfound perspective from here. At worse, it will lead to a fight. Tell him: a "romantic getaway to salvage 21 years of neglect" is not actually a thing. Save your money. Save your time and aggravation. Instead, maybe do something nice together with the kids. Salvage/enjoy what time you have left with the kids, having some family time. (That is pretty much my approach at this time.) Maybe you can at least throw him this: "It is just not the right time for a one-on-one weekend. I need time to think and to work out my own feelings. Maybe there is a chance I'd be willing to take a trip with you... but I'll let you know when that is."
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Jan 12, 2018 16:48:44 GMT -5
The only why chasing that I feel is productive at this point, would be "why did I stay in this codependent relationship for so long, even though it was hurting me", and "how can I prevent this from happening in a future relationship"? I. LOVE. THIS. That is awesome. That thought deserves a thread of its own.
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jan 12, 2018 18:14:33 GMT -5
@dan Thanks for the sympathy. I filed for divorce and withdrew at the last second because he pulled out all the stops-- therapy, sex therapy (he quit after two sessions), 2 carat diamond ring, promises, begging, pleading, etc. And in general, it's not like he's a dirtbag. He's a good guy. He's WANTS me to stay. But he does this behavior until I calm down and then he reverts to his safety and no sex. It's a cycle. The million dollar question is this: how do I get him to stay interested without manipulations and threats ? Even WITH "manipulation and threats" you can not (in any sustainable way) change your spouse Sister surfergirlAll you achieve by "threats" is to shred your cred, and educate your spouse that you don't mean what you say, and that your threats have no substance, no consequence, and can safely be ignored. In these situations there is no place for brinkmanship, bluff or bullshit. Whatever you say, you have to then back up with action. The golden rule here is don't say anything that you are not prepared to deliver on.
|
|
|
Post by surfergirl on Jan 12, 2018 18:38:42 GMT -5
Yes. All of those questions-- are you gay? Are you unattracted to me? Low libido? We did the testosterone, counseling, viagra, etc., etc.
After 20 years and 8 months, I finally got the guts to "outsource". I chose very, very carefully and was proud of my choice. It wasn't flippant.
But the affair partner is choosing a 24-year-old over me. I'm 41. He cheats on her with ME. (I didn't know she existed or I wouldn't have chosen him.) The affair partner says the sex is better with me than with her and that I'm beautiful. (As if.) It's messed up.
The only person in the equation with the problem that I'm able to solve is me. I chose those two people as partners.
|
|
|
Post by obobfla on Jan 12, 2018 19:41:21 GMT -5
Yes. All of those questions-- are you gay? Are you unattracted to me? Low libido? We did the testosterone, counseling, viagra, etc., etc. After 20 years and 8 months, I finally got the guts to "outsource". I chose very, very carefully and was proud of my choice. It wasn't flippant. But the affair partner is choosing a 24-year-old over me. I'm 41. He cheats on her with ME. (I didn't know she existed or I wouldn't have chosen him.) The affair partner says the sex is better with me than with her and that I'm beautiful. (As if.) It's messed up. The only person in the equation with the problem that I'm able to solve is me. I chose those two people as partners. First of all, let me say a belated welcome to the group. I am reading up on all your old posts, trying to get up to speed. Next, excuse me while I dry off after a cold shower. I found out from your picture that you are stunningly beautiful and from your posts that you are only about 50 miles from me and financially stable. But you don’t need a raw desperate widower right now, so let me just be a friend. Why I am in this group is that my late wife has some mental health issues. She was paranoid about getting pregnant again after the birth of our son. I wore condoms then got a vasectomy. Didn’t help. She was still scared. So we stopped having sex. But the bigger issue was the communication between us. I don’t believe she totally trusted me or anyone other than her mother. Her illness made it hard for her to see where I was coming from, and I resented it so much that it affected how I related to her. We did try counseling, but she was incapable of of the honest communication necessary. My wife was sweet, but she was sick. I also tried the romantic weekend away - big mistake! She was in the hot tub with me for about 10 minutes then wanted to go to bed - to sleep! If you don’t mind advice, I would consider counseling, even if you two are getting divorced. You still have kids to raise. And if you do go through the divorce, you will know you have tried everything. If you don’t, well sometimes miracles happen. Like you, I had an affair. I don’t regret it, as it gave me back my sexual confidence. Mine was a long-distance relationship, so it couldn’t last. And if your AF left you for 21-year-old, good riddance! Young girls are pretty, but when they talk I lose all desire. One thing that has helped keep me sane is my platonic friendships with women. I really value them because they are honest. Since we’re not involved with each other or sleeping with each other, we don’t have to BS one another. Those women helped me be a better husband, and keep my head above water now that I am grieving. Hopefully, you can get some good male friendships who will tell you honestly where you are, and not because they want to get into your pants. I think you will find a few in this group.
|
|
|
Post by surfergirl on Jan 12, 2018 20:08:43 GMT -5
Thanks obobfla for the advice. We've been in marital and individual counseling. Sorry for coming on here and letting my story come out in pieces. That's not very helpful. My "old posts" are only a day old. I just got here, but I suppose I've been in the club vicariously for a few decades. Go us! [/sarcasm] I met someone here tonight for drinks, and if he wants to say out loud if I match my pic, I guess that's up to him.... lol If it's okay and anyone cares to listen, I'd like to lay out my story in one post on a new thread.
|
|