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Post by isolina on Jan 5, 2018 21:10:28 GMT -5
Hi savvy forum members, I am really new here but it is good to know that (a) I am not alone and (b) learn about tips to get ready for a divorce and just learn from reading your stories.
My question is when do you know the relationship is really over? Is there a tipping point? Do you wake up one day with the motivation and strength to do it? Is an external cause the trigger to mobilize?
I feel like I am in limbo. Some days I feel strong, and I say to myself that I can no longer put up with a SM. Other days I think I shouldn't throw away what we built together, that he can be funny and that he is very financially responsible etc etc... and that life after a divorce can be harder, and there is no guarantee to meet someone new. It could well be just me and my kids for the rest of my life.
These ideas and different states of mind (the "it's over" state of mind, the "I can put up with is" state of mind) are spinning in my head, causing much frustration and confusion because it's like seeing a bad movie over and over. I feel I am not making progress, except for the fact that I have lost more and more hope on our future together (maybe that is progress, in the direction of a separation).
So do you experience the same? When did you gain enough clarity on your situation to change it?
Thanks.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 5, 2018 21:27:10 GMT -5
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Post by JMX on Jan 5, 2018 21:36:54 GMT -5
Lots of good questions! Welcome . I did read up on your intro and responses there too. That said - what is the tipping point? It is different for everyone. I would tell you I reached mine, lawyered up, three appointments deep and bailed on my plan. We have been in couples’ counseling and our respective individual counselors now for about a year and a half all told. Nothing has changed. I have been “done” so many times, but always come back to - what do I lose? Right now - not a whole hell of a lot. But, yet, #shepersisted. I can say it is for the children - my girls are 14 and 9. They have a great life now and it’s not that I don’t think that adversity and challenges are important for them too, but I just don’t want to point back to an issue years down the road and say - had I only not gotten divorced... But, alas, I know deep down - that is an excuse. I can support myself - more than support myself, actually. I will have to pay HIM child support or alimony. I am finally debt free except for the house. I have great friends and family - a humongous support network. I KNOW people like me and that I am charming. Deep down, I am sincerely insecure. I am sure it has always been there, but I guess that it has gotten worse as a result of my SM. Many strong women here have gotten out. Many strong women choose to stay too. There really is no great advice, no magic pill. You will know when you know (it sounds like you do) and you either will or won’t do something about it. Either way, we are all here to read a rant, listen and feel your pain, and offer some emotional (sometimes even practical) support! I hope you make the best decision for YOU.
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Post by baza on Jan 5, 2018 22:40:26 GMT -5
My suggestion is that you need to be prepared for when you are actually "done". See a lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish how a divorce would theoretically shake out for you. Put together a theoretical exit strategy (within the legal parameters you discover above) Shore up your support network. Research everything you can find about shepherding your kids through such an event. These things you can start on right now, and get your ducks lined up so you are in a state of preparedness. At some point, you will be "done". And, at that point, you could also be prepared. And, when "preparation" and "opportunity" meet, great things can happen. The cosmos might control when "opportunity" might arrive. YOU can control when "preparation" happens. Good luck Sister isolina . Focus on what YOU can control.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 6, 2018 8:25:22 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2018 8:58:32 GMT -5
To the OP, I’m kinda right there with JMX at the moment. I’m working a 4 year plan, nearing the end. Not sure what will happen in the next year. I’ve found individual therapy to be immensely helpful. My therapist assured me that when I know, I’ll know. When I’m ready, there won’t be any other option to consider. As for what age is best for the kids (saw your other posts)... I’ve done a little reading on that and it seems the young ones bounce back best. But not too young because you don’t want to disrupt attachment. If I could go back in time, I would have left when my kids were 4 and 8. As it stands, I have a teen and a preteen. I’m now debating whether it’s best to leave while they’re at home or when they go to college, although I’ve heard from others’ experience that college age is a terrible time. Too much transition and uncertainty for the kids already. And I know from my therapist that when people wait too long, they end up resigning themselves and staying. I cannot retire with this man. For now, I’ve decided to spend the next year focusing on myself (and trying not to ruminate on my marriage). I’m working on getting stronger - mentally and physically, building a bigger social circle, learning new skills, being more involved, etc. And I’m working on dropping hurt and anger at my H. He’s done the best he could. He just has no tools for intimate relationship and he struggles with substance mis-use. Poor guy. So I’m trying not to be hurt by him and trying to see him as he is. See his strengths. He’s not all bad. Who knows where this goes? Keep reading and thinking. Your solution will come when it’s time. I love your analogy to a Greek tragedy. Yes, someone and/or something will perish no matter what path we choose. However, endings are always followed by new beginnings. So there’s that to look forward to as well. Hope!!
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jan 6, 2018 9:52:28 GMT -5
It comes down to following my own heart. Just like if I had asked anyone else: should I marry him? There were external reasons that supported yes, and external reasons that supported no. I did marry him. That “decision” wasn’t exactly logic-based. It was heart-based, following my own internal spirit. And I do not regret marrying him. 17 years after marrying, & 25 years after originally pairing up, I divorced him. That wasn’t a financial decision. It wasn’t logic-based. The actual decisions to bet on myself, to take the reins of my life into my own hands, to actively take them FROM his hands - that was following my own internal guidance. I was able to access my internal wants, needs, feelings through excellent therapy. I read a LOT about relationships- healthy & unhealthy ones. I looked at a lot of external factors. But none of the external stuff was more important than the internal stuff. Just like getting married, I don’t regret getting divorced. It isn’t for the rest of the world to decide what I should do - at the beginning OR at the end. They were both my decisions- I even initiated both. And I don’t regret either. As nebulous as it is (& that irritated me when I was “on the fence” trying to decide): you really will need to be in touch with your internal self and then you will know when you know. I wish there was a checklist. I wish there was a formula. But it’s real life, and it’s just not that easy. Welcome, and condolences that you belong here. It is a GREAT group of people. We understand because we are in, or have been in, the same shoes.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 6, 2018 9:59:51 GMT -5
To the OP, I’m kinda right there with JMX at the moment. I’m working a 4 year plan, nearing the end. Not sure what will happen in the next year. I’ve found individual therapy to be immensely helpful. My therapist assured me that when I know, I’ll know. When I’m ready, there won’t be any other option to consider. As for what age is best for the kids (saw your other posts)... I’ve done a little reading on that and it seems the young ones bounce back best. But not too young because you don’t want to disrupt attachment. If I could go back in time, I would have left when my kids were 4 and 8. As it stands, I have a teen and a preteen. I’m now debating whether it’s best to leave while they’re at home or when they go to college, although I’ve heard from others’ experience that college age is a terrible time. Too much transition and uncertainty for the kids already. And I know from my therapist that when people wait too long, they end up resigning themselves and staying. I cannot retire with this man. For now, I’ve decided to spend the next year focusing on myself (and trying not to ruminate on my marriage). I’m working on getting stronger - mentally and physically, building a bigger social circle, learning new skills, being more involved, etc. And I’m working on dropping hurt and anger at my H. He’s done the best he could. He just has no tools for intimate relationship and he struggles with substance mis-use. Poor guy. So I’m trying not to be hurt by him and trying to see him as he is. See his strengths. He’s not all bad. Who knows where this goes? Keep reading and thinking. Your solution will come when it’s time. I love your analogy to a Greek tragedy. Yes, someone and/or something will perish no matter what path we choose. However, endings are always followed by new beginnings. So there’s that to look forward to as well. Hope!! It was strange. When I was "ready", knew it. Oddly enough, during that same week, I had both my father and my best friend say the words to me "you're ready". I suspect that when it is time for you, it will also "click". I'd agree with "younger is better" as well. If I could go back in time, I wouldn't do 4 and 8, though. I would have done it maybe 13 and 9. But this might also be different from a guy's perspective. In general, we don't get as much time with the kids post-divorce (courts still favor moms), and that younger would mean my kids would grow up without really knowing me except every other weekend. Plus the younger they were, the longer I'd have to pay child support. I know that may sound crass, but if I'm paying to support the kids, I'd rather be there full time as long as I could.
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Post by worksforme2 on Jan 6, 2018 10:16:38 GMT -5
You have gotten some pretty fair guidance above about what to do when you are ready to leave. But your core question may still need some addressing. The therapist for elle has it right. There is a term that best fits that time when you know you're done. It's often referred to as "deal breaker status". The list of failed hopes and dreams, the compiling of broken promises and even the resentment you may feel will combine to open your eyes and mind to the realization that there simply is no reason for continued hope or trying just one more strategy to fix the relationship. Most likely the tipping point will come when you finally acknowledge to yourself that there really is no chance things will ever change from what you have experienced for years with him. He is who he is. That doesn't make him a bad person. He may indeed be a very good person. But he is not the one for you. The 2 of you are not headed toward a mutually desired destination. You're simply not compatible when it comes to intimacy, whether it's the type, the quality or quantity or all of them. When you acknowledge and accept this to your self, that will be when it's over, and you will know it.
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Post by hopingforachange on Jan 6, 2018 11:04:31 GMT -5
To the OP, I’m kinda right there with JMX at the moment. I’m working a 4 year plan, nearing the end. Not sure what will happen in the next year. I’ve found individual therapy to be immensely helpful. My therapist assured me that when I know, I’ll know. When I’m ready, there won’t be any other option to consider. As for what age is best for the kids (saw your other posts)... I’ve done a little reading on that and it seems the young ones bounce back best. But not too young because you don’t want to disrupt attachment. If I could go back in time, I would have left when my kids were 4 and 8. As it stands, I have a teen and a preteen. I’m now debating whether it’s best to leave while they’re at home or when they go to college, although I’ve heard from others’ experience that college age is a terrible time. Too much transition and uncertainty for the kids already. And I know from my therapist that when people wait too long, they end up resigning themselves and staying. I cannot retire with this man. For now, I’ve decided to spend the next year focusing on myself (and trying not to ruminate on my marriage). I’m working on getting stronger - mentally and physically, building a bigger social circle, learning new skills, being more involved, etc. And I’m working on dropping hurt and anger at my H. He’s done the best he could. He just has no tools for intimate relationship and he struggles with substance mis-use. Poor guy. So I’m trying not to be hurt by him and trying to see him as he is. See his strengths. He’s not all bad. Who knows where this goes? Keep reading and thinking. Your solution will come when it’s time. I love your analogy to a Greek tragedy. Yes, someone and/or something will perish no matter what path we choose. However, endings are always followed by new beginnings. So there’s that to look forward to as well. Hope!! It was strange. When I was "ready", knew it. Oddly enough, during that same week, I had both my father and my best friend say the words to me "you're ready". I suspect that when it is time for you, it will also "click". I'd agree with "younger is better" as well. If I could go back in time, I wouldn't do 4 and 8, though. I would have done it maybe 13 and 9. But this might also be different from a guy's perspective. In general, we don't get as much time with the kids post-divorce (courts still favor moms), and that younger would mean my kids would grow up without really knowing me except every other weekend. Plus the younger they were, the longer I'd have to pay child support. I know that may sound crass, but if I'm paying to support the kids, I'd rather be there full time as long as I could. If we are going to go back in time, while I love my kids dearly, it would be before we had kids. I almost lost myself and they almost lost thier dad with one snap and permanent decision that was a hair away from being made.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 6, 2018 11:38:39 GMT -5
Hi savvy forum members, I am really new here but it is good to know that (a) I am not alone and (b) learn about tips to get ready for a divorce and just learn from reading your stories. My question is when do you know the relationship is really over? Is there a tipping point? Do you wake up one day with the motivation and strength to do it? Is an external cause the trigger to mobilize? I feel like I am in limbo. Some days I feel strong, and I say to myself that I can no longer put up with a SM. Other days I think I shouldn't throw away what we built together, that he can be funny and that he is very financially responsible etc etc... and that life after a divorce can be harder, and there is no guarantee to meet someone new. It could well be just me and my kids for the rest of my life. These ideas and different states of mind (the "it's over" state of mind, the "I can put up with is" state of mind) are spinning in my head, causing much frustration and confusion because it's like seeing a bad movie over and over. I feel I am not making progress, except for the fact that I have lost more and more hope on our future together (maybe that is progress, in the direction of a separation). So do you experience the same? When did you gain enough clarity on your situation to change it? Thanks. Only word of advice is that the hamster wheel spinning in you head is a dangerous thing. Try to find something healthy to learn to slow down its spin. Long walks, prayer, meditation, therapy, etc... Whatever works for you. When hamster wheels spin completely out of control they tend to fling you off in directions you never would have imagined / wanted. At some point you will wake up in a strange bed with strange person, or face down in the toilet throwing up (yet again) , or even just losing it at your kids for no objective reason. It all comes from that hamster wheel. First get off the wheel. Second, as baza so poetically says, work on your own shit, then make major life decisions. Just my 2 cents. Oh and the toilet-purge route was mine before I learned to drown the hamsters.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jan 6, 2018 17:54:04 GMT -5
“Hear! Hear!” On the hamster wheel note. Take care of yourself so that you can then face the rest when it’s time.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 6, 2018 18:30:42 GMT -5
“Hear! Hear!” On the hamster wheel note. Take care of yourself so that you can then face the rest when it’s time. Yup... My favorite hamsters were named self pity, resentment, and fear. They often resulted in harm to others.
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Post by isolina on Jan 6, 2018 23:00:20 GMT -5
What can I say? You are a wise group of people, and each post offered very good advice. There is nothing like learning from other people who have been/still are in a similar situation. This is great food for thought. I am grateful for what you shared and the support you offer. It is funny how the internet allows us to connect with complete strangers, who have your back!
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Post by twotimesone on Jan 6, 2018 23:45:40 GMT -5
Isolina, I don't think there is a real answer to your question. However, to most counselors I would think if there is physical abuse involved is a definite yes. For others, the foundation for a divorce is already there, but needs a right catalyst. For example in my parent's divorce I recall that my Dad say something insensitive about to my Mom after her mom (my Grandma) passed away. That's just speaking from personal experience.
Isolina, when I say "foundation for a divorce" is that my assumption is that you are already thought about it and somehow planned it but not yet ready to say yes about it. For me, I rather not get to details, let's just say I got to legal trouble because how my W badmouths me to my kids and an incident happened as a result of it. Because of that legal trouble, I had to receive counseling and he knew the problem is really with the marriage itself. My wife always thinks that I am the problem and she doesn't want to admit that she is part of the problem.
At this point, there's really no point in trying to 'fix' the marriage and I am just building the "foundation for a divorce. I love my kids despite how my wife badmouths me in front of them and I will probably stay until the kids are off to college.
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