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Post by brian on Jan 5, 2018 7:40:07 GMT -5
rejected101 , I am going to take something that you said above and change it slightly to be words of wisdom we should all have with our ADULT sons/daughters. Original text: “don’t disregard the importance of remaining lovers. Agree on a love life you can both achieve and be happy with. If you are going to bloody minded and keep your love life at a level you are happy with and who cares if he is, don’t be surprised when his dick slips inside someone else”. Modified statement: “don’t disregard the importance of remaining lovers. Agree on a love life you can both achieve and be happy with. If you think that you can keep your love life at a level that only you are happy with and not care about your partner's happiness, don’t be surprised when s/he finds someone else to fill the gap”.That one's getting filed away. Absolutely brilliant advice.
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 5, 2018 10:15:12 GMT -5
rejected101 , I am going to take something that you said above and change it slightly to be words of wisdom we should all have with our ADULT sons/daughters. Original text: “don’t disregard the importance of remaining lovers. Agree on a love life you can both achieve and be happy with. If you are going to bloody minded and keep your love life at a level you are happy with and who cares if he is, don’t be surprised when his dick slips inside someone else”. Modified statement: “don’t disregard the importance of remaining lovers. Agree on a love life you can both achieve and be happy with. If you think that you can keep your love life at a level that only you are happy with and not care about your partner's happiness, don’t be surprised when s/he finds someone else to fill the gap”.That one's getting filed away. Absolutely brilliant advice. I like that a lot. I wish my W’s dad, Mum or whoever had had this discussion with her!
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 5, 2018 10:43:15 GMT -5
“That’s exactly my point. There is a lot of don’t do it, do it only when you want to and so on and never a ‘remember that if it is important to him/her, it should be important to you too’.”
So what messages are the refused telling their kids about sex? Although I had sons, I did all of their sex education// got them she-appropriate books, talked about values including that sex is an important part of adult’s love relationships. Talked about birth control, sexual abuse including info about what to do if someone tried to sexually abuse them (yes, boys often are victimized by pedophiles).
I assumed my husband also was talking to them about sex. It wasn’t until they were grown that I learned that my husband had never talked about sex to them.
Whatever your kids’ gender, you need to educate them about sex.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 10:53:48 GMT -5
I wholeheartedly believe that religious organizations (some, not all) unintentionally contribute to this problem. There's a constant message of DON'T DO IT until people get married and then nothing after. The negative messages end but positive messages never start. That's my experience anyway. For what it's worth, in Jewish law if a wife wants sex, her husband is not allowed to refuse. I've rarely had the chance to fulfill that requirement. As far as vice-versa - I'm not sure if the laws are as clear-cut, but clearly lack of sex is a valid reason for divorce.
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Post by csl on Jan 5, 2018 12:27:02 GMT -5
I wholeheartedly believe that religious organizations (some, not all) unintentionally contribute to this problem. There's a constant message of DON'T DO IT until people get married and then nothing after. The negative messages end but positive messages never start. That's my experience anyway. For what it's worth, in Jewish law if a wife wants sex, her husband is not allowed to refuse. I wrote about mored and moredet in my Marriage/Divorce: Restoring Balance posts (#3 & #4).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 12:30:43 GMT -5
The Bible clearly states that husbands and wives should submit to one another and not deprive each other of sexual intimacy except for an “agreed upon time” for spiritual reasons and then they are to come back together so that Satan does not get between them. (Corinthians)
It’s in there. But I suppose some people pick and choose what they like from the Bible and other Christians have not even read the whole Bible.
I’m teaching my teen daughter (and eventually my young son) to ideally wait until she’s older to have sex, have few partners, and then once married, have lots of sex regularly whether she feels like it or not, assuming she is not with an abusive partner or one who is badly neglecting himself or her.
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Post by choosinghappy on Jan 5, 2018 12:41:37 GMT -5
“...in Jewish law if a wife wants sex, her husband is not allowed to refuse.”
Sign me up @shynjdude!! 😆
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 12:44:57 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 12:47:48 GMT -5
I wrote about mored and moredet in my Marriage/Divorce: Restoring Balance posts (#3 & #4). Nicely done. For the record, I don't recall ever hearing a public pronouncement in synagogue that one's wife had been a refuser!
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Post by ironhamster on Jan 5, 2018 12:54:25 GMT -5
Part of the problem is wanting to be wanted. If you have to beat your partner over the head with your grandfather's Mega-sized King James Bible and Exhaustive Concordance in order to get him or her to put out, is that really the kind of sex you want?
I applaud Paul for pointing out the importance of sexual relations in marriage, but I'm just done trying to make it happen with an unwilling partner.
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Post by h on Jan 5, 2018 12:59:12 GMT -5
I wholeheartedly believe that religious organizations (some, not all) unintentionally contribute to this problem. There's a constant message of DON'T DO IT until people get married and then nothing after. The negative messages end but positive messages never start. That's my experience anyway. For what it's worth, in Jewish law if a wife wants sex, her husband is not allowed to refuse. I've rarely had the chance to fulfill that requirement. As far as vice-versa - I'm not sure if the laws are as clear-cut, but clearly lack of sex is a valid reason for divorce. If divorce is something that religious organizations wish to avoid, shouldn't it follow that positive messages about sex are desirable to further their original goal? The "not allowed to refuse" rule follows into marriages in Christianity also. It just isn't emphasized much, which was my point: it's not taught.
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Post by orangepeel on Jan 5, 2018 13:04:41 GMT -5
I think it’s impossible to overestimate the extent to which children pick up on non-verbal cues from parents. On an emotional level (and sexual stuff’s a subset of that) families living under the same roof are as near as dammit telepathic.
If parents aren’t fucking, kids will pick it up, internalise and model it later in life. It makes no difference if they’re consciously unaware.
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Post by isolina on Jan 5, 2018 21:21:57 GMT -5
My kids are very young, yet they are already sensing that something is not right between my husband and I. My husband and I direct a lot of affection onto our kids, but none onto each other. In your experience or for what you have read, are divorces easier on younger kids or on older ones? I wonder if I should try to keep the skeleton of a family together or if it would be easier for them to bounce back now that they are young.
This is a very useful thread, as the effect of a dysfunctional relationship vs the effect of a divorce are something I ponder all the time.
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Post by baza on Jan 5, 2018 23:34:59 GMT -5
I think it is generally thought that the younger the kids the better they bounce back from the upheaval.
At more intermediate ages - say when transitioning from junior school to high school to college/university - they are under pressure from those influences and adding a parental bust up into the equation can make their transition through the process much more difficult.
But in any event, whatever choice you make MUST be in YOUR longer term best interests.
The interests of the kids (and indeed assorted other people) must obviously be factored in to the equation as you weigh up the options, but the final call/choice is on you. And, there is no *perfect* choice to be had. It is more a matter of having to choose between one very difficult and less than ideal choice - and another even more difficult and less than ideal choice.
And it is going to hurt like fuck either way.
Sometimes, it is necessary to make longer term choices that have no immediate pay off at all, but pay off in spades a year - 5 years - 10 years down the track.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 6, 2018 0:26:21 GMT -5
My kids are very young, yet they are already sensing that something is not right between my husband and I. My husband and I direct a lot of affection onto our kids, but none onto each other. In your experience or for what you have read, are divorces easier on younger kids or on older ones? I wonder if I should try to keep the skeleton of a family together or if it would be easier for them to bounce back now that they are young. This is a very useful thread, as the effect of a dysfunctional relationship vs the effect of a divorce are something I ponder all the time. What happens to a skeleton when it takes a hit or load is put on it? It collapses. The shitty part about that from the "skeleton of a marriage" perspective is that you often have no control over when or what stresses are placed on the rickety relationship. That being said, the best thing is to know what happens if the marriage collapses. A free consultation with an attorney in your area can shed a great deal of light. It also lets you understand exactly how things would shake out.
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