I have to talk about things, but it is difficult
Dec 31, 2017 6:30:04 GMT -5
GeekGoddess, DryCreek, and 2 more like this
Post by afrogofhope on Dec 31, 2017 6:30:04 GMT -5
As stated in the welcome thread I don't know how to talk about this without betraying the intimacies of my marriage.
Finding a forum like this makes be both hopeful and terrified. It is good to know that I am not alone in this and there are people willing to talk about this openly and (hopefully) without judgement. Although seeing how many members there are here is despairing.
In the past I've joined forums and done exhaustive reading before I post but here I believe my ignorance is a major contributor. It seems ideal to have things written down to avoid as much denial as possible. Also this post will be somewhat rambling stream of consciousness, editing this will possible remove details I need to read later.
Firstly, I am sure others "have it worse," and in comparison I should be happy with what I have.
This is a thought I cannot shake, and it fills me with doubt.
Second, I carry a lot of guilt from this relationship that I cannot shake.
Third, there will are some cliches and I hate myself for that. Trite but true right?
Fourth, this is not a monologue about my wife's lake of effort, I NEED help talking to her. I'm at a loss.
How does one begin but to start at the beginning? I blame my parents and not because of anything malicious but their best efforts were just wrong for me at least. I blame them but it isn't their fault. My father was a conservative christian preacher and my mother his dutiful(but unloving) wife. Sex was only discussed objectively and from a ten thousand foot perspective. "Sex is only permitted after marriage..." "wives submit to your husbands" and the like. We never had the sex talk, my father never even commented on what he found attractive in others. Needless to say things were rather repressed at least as far as communication was concerned. Hell there wasn't even anything so much as dating advice. Besides "these people in the church you are too-closely related to so you can't marry them." That's just the nature of their branch of religion its the best they could do, but I was REALLY in the dark.
For whatever reason the faith wasn't something I identified with, although some of the more coarse guidelines I have internalized. They make sense with my moral compass.
My wife and I met in high school as friends. Good friends that didn't realize that had started dating. It was so very natural to just keep continuing our conversation as often as possible. To this day we are still deeply interested it each others thoughts and opinions(except where sex is concerned). After about 18 months we started having sex, in what I would describe as the most unnatural way possible, sneaking around and hiding it from her parents and mine. For the most part quickies, not the intimate loving exploration that kinda happened later. Typical teenager stuff, I know, but this cannot give you a good idea of someone's libido, only their availability. At best a couple times a week, after 18 years or so the details escape me. Once we finally were married things improved to a mostly regular couple times a week. Of course as a 22 year old I believed this was ridiculous, we were both available with no one between us and this is "wonderful", why were we ever apart? I nagged her for more(I'll never forgive myself for this.), to no avail. It wasn't until years later I ever got the courage to ask if she was sexually satisfied.
I had no clue she had never had an orgasm. I was crushed, not for some machismo "I think I'm a great lover" reason, but because I hadn't thought to ask. How could I be so oblivious and uncaring?
Somewhere around this time I also realized she was mostly having sex because I wanted to and there was some sense of duty that she owed it to me. Not entirely but often enough I was ashamed. Still am.
Again, my naivete and ignorance led me astray. Conversations turned to arguments because I believed she wasn't sexually attracted to me, she tells me this was wrong but the doubt lingers. There just wasn't a sex drive, at least not much of one for her.
That was it, I couldn't have sex with her under those conditions. To my mind I was sexually abusing her, I was a serial rapist. Another thing I cannot shake from my mind.
Sex became substantially infrequent, closer to once or twice a month. Generally in sequential days.
More conversations and we realized her birth control was limiting her interest. Not to be too graphic but we were basically only having sex when her pills let her have a period. Yes I am somewhat squeamish, but its just not ideal it being the only time.
She tried several different birth controls to no avail, what helped? No birth control, after almost a year of no birth control she woke up sexually. Things were really good, very intense but frequency was still around a couple times a week. My wife could orgasm! There were toys and experimentation, it was loving and tender to experience that with her. I thought she was really going to become the sexual partner I'd always wanted.
In the end I believe I let us down. There were several pregnancies and a number of miscarriages. At this time my sadness and depression started to get really bad. I think this was the real start of the wedge between us. I turned to substance abuse. I'm ashamed and it pains me to admit this. I don't use regularly and never bring it around them.
She turned to our daughters, they get so much attention we can hardly even talk when their awake. Two beautiful and amazing people, I couldn't be happier to have them in my life. They keep me living, but they have destroyed any semblance of a sex life we could repair. Again, not blaming them just stating observations as I get to them. I have great guilt for this, I am in the wrong for thinking that.
My wife wanted to co-sleep with the girls for some indeterminate period of time. She never set a limit, though with the oldest it wasn't nearly as long as the second. Virtually no sex in this period, very slow progression towards normalcy after that. Although the frequency increased the former vibrancy was gone, things stagnated quickly. Routine set in and things became formulaic. Around this time she really only was interested when her hormones were at their peak, another contributing fact towards so many pregnancies.
Right now my youngest is 18months. Since her birth we've tried to have sex 4, 5 times? Every single time its because she's back to the whole duty thing. I love her for being willing to go through that for me but quite frankly its lifeless and I can't perform even to my own satisfaction. Its too awkward and forced. Like we've got to do it now cause one daughter is away and the other is down for a nap somehow without nursing. I'm walking on eggshells between the chance of being interrupted and my wife's lack of interest. Again I feel like its against her will. Without me it wouldn't be happening, she doesn't even masturbate. To me its tantamount to rape, its humiliating when I tried.
Once or twice my wife has offered to try and I couldn't put myself through being let down, so I declined. This is now a major bone of contention between us. Many times I've made advances and this is thrown in my face. "You can't finish when sex is available and last time you didn't want sex when I initiated, so no." Or at least she said something to that effect.
Its been 6 months or so at this point with nothing and we can't talk about it without some sort of resentment or misunderstanding.
Here again my issues are making it impossible for things to get back to normal. I've tried to start over sexually, going back to simple interactions like before we'd had intercourse when we were dating, and maybe ramping back up to sex eventually should the opportunity present. I couldn't handle it, it never led anywhere over weeks of trying. I get all worked up and she is at best disinterested, more often than not she's annoyed. So there's resentment and guilt. Its everything I can do to not be antagonistic. Anger I don't want to express to her cause its my failing. Occasionally I'll say something hurtful and I'm ashamed of that.
I just want her to want sex, at this point I don't even care if she wants me. At least then I could associate with that. Her lack of interest in sex as a whole is alien and confusing to me. I'm just frustrated and lost.
I don't know where I sit on the libido spectrum, I've only had one sexual partner. I do know that my partner and I are likely a severe mismatch in this regard. Since early adulthood I have craved sexual attention a couple of times a day, and stifled it or took care of things personally.(Apologies for the detail there.) "There won't ever be such opportunity," I'd tell myself. As I have aged I know morning, noon and night is unrealistic and can deal. I don't want sex even daily, just something sometimes. Something meaningful, loving, on occasion would be enough I think.
Its gone.
I'll never step out of our marriage, but I think about leaving all the time. She feels like my room mate not my wife.
I keep telling myself its lack of opportunity.
Or maybe its hormones from breastfeeding.
I think its maybe the history of sexual misunderstandings between us.
I know nothing to help myself. I've probably said too much, and she'd not forgive me for this much.
As much as I love my wife I can't help thinking I should never have married her just for love. Couldn't we have just been friends and I married some one else just for sex? Sex is the one thing I refuse to do with anyone else. A vow I made and I will keep.
A balance of love and libido seems like an impossibility. She doesn't deserve this harassment from me, don't I deserve a chance at physical love?
Why does this happen?
Finding a forum like this makes be both hopeful and terrified. It is good to know that I am not alone in this and there are people willing to talk about this openly and (hopefully) without judgement. Although seeing how many members there are here is despairing.
In the past I've joined forums and done exhaustive reading before I post but here I believe my ignorance is a major contributor. It seems ideal to have things written down to avoid as much denial as possible. Also this post will be somewhat rambling stream of consciousness, editing this will possible remove details I need to read later.
Firstly, I am sure others "have it worse," and in comparison I should be happy with what I have.
This is a thought I cannot shake, and it fills me with doubt.
Second, I carry a lot of guilt from this relationship that I cannot shake.
Third, there will are some cliches and I hate myself for that. Trite but true right?
Fourth, this is not a monologue about my wife's lake of effort, I NEED help talking to her. I'm at a loss.
How does one begin but to start at the beginning? I blame my parents and not because of anything malicious but their best efforts were just wrong for me at least. I blame them but it isn't their fault. My father was a conservative christian preacher and my mother his dutiful(but unloving) wife. Sex was only discussed objectively and from a ten thousand foot perspective. "Sex is only permitted after marriage..." "wives submit to your husbands" and the like. We never had the sex talk, my father never even commented on what he found attractive in others. Needless to say things were rather repressed at least as far as communication was concerned. Hell there wasn't even anything so much as dating advice. Besides "these people in the church you are too-closely related to so you can't marry them." That's just the nature of their branch of religion its the best they could do, but I was REALLY in the dark.
For whatever reason the faith wasn't something I identified with, although some of the more coarse guidelines I have internalized. They make sense with my moral compass.
My wife and I met in high school as friends. Good friends that didn't realize that had started dating. It was so very natural to just keep continuing our conversation as often as possible. To this day we are still deeply interested it each others thoughts and opinions(except where sex is concerned). After about 18 months we started having sex, in what I would describe as the most unnatural way possible, sneaking around and hiding it from her parents and mine. For the most part quickies, not the intimate loving exploration that kinda happened later. Typical teenager stuff, I know, but this cannot give you a good idea of someone's libido, only their availability. At best a couple times a week, after 18 years or so the details escape me. Once we finally were married things improved to a mostly regular couple times a week. Of course as a 22 year old I believed this was ridiculous, we were both available with no one between us and this is "wonderful", why were we ever apart? I nagged her for more(I'll never forgive myself for this.), to no avail. It wasn't until years later I ever got the courage to ask if she was sexually satisfied.
I had no clue she had never had an orgasm. I was crushed, not for some machismo "I think I'm a great lover" reason, but because I hadn't thought to ask. How could I be so oblivious and uncaring?
Somewhere around this time I also realized she was mostly having sex because I wanted to and there was some sense of duty that she owed it to me. Not entirely but often enough I was ashamed. Still am.
Again, my naivete and ignorance led me astray. Conversations turned to arguments because I believed she wasn't sexually attracted to me, she tells me this was wrong but the doubt lingers. There just wasn't a sex drive, at least not much of one for her.
That was it, I couldn't have sex with her under those conditions. To my mind I was sexually abusing her, I was a serial rapist. Another thing I cannot shake from my mind.
Sex became substantially infrequent, closer to once or twice a month. Generally in sequential days.
More conversations and we realized her birth control was limiting her interest. Not to be too graphic but we were basically only having sex when her pills let her have a period. Yes I am somewhat squeamish, but its just not ideal it being the only time.
She tried several different birth controls to no avail, what helped? No birth control, after almost a year of no birth control she woke up sexually. Things were really good, very intense but frequency was still around a couple times a week. My wife could orgasm! There were toys and experimentation, it was loving and tender to experience that with her. I thought she was really going to become the sexual partner I'd always wanted.
In the end I believe I let us down. There were several pregnancies and a number of miscarriages. At this time my sadness and depression started to get really bad. I think this was the real start of the wedge between us. I turned to substance abuse. I'm ashamed and it pains me to admit this. I don't use regularly and never bring it around them.
She turned to our daughters, they get so much attention we can hardly even talk when their awake. Two beautiful and amazing people, I couldn't be happier to have them in my life. They keep me living, but they have destroyed any semblance of a sex life we could repair. Again, not blaming them just stating observations as I get to them. I have great guilt for this, I am in the wrong for thinking that.
My wife wanted to co-sleep with the girls for some indeterminate period of time. She never set a limit, though with the oldest it wasn't nearly as long as the second. Virtually no sex in this period, very slow progression towards normalcy after that. Although the frequency increased the former vibrancy was gone, things stagnated quickly. Routine set in and things became formulaic. Around this time she really only was interested when her hormones were at their peak, another contributing fact towards so many pregnancies.
Right now my youngest is 18months. Since her birth we've tried to have sex 4, 5 times? Every single time its because she's back to the whole duty thing. I love her for being willing to go through that for me but quite frankly its lifeless and I can't perform even to my own satisfaction. Its too awkward and forced. Like we've got to do it now cause one daughter is away and the other is down for a nap somehow without nursing. I'm walking on eggshells between the chance of being interrupted and my wife's lack of interest. Again I feel like its against her will. Without me it wouldn't be happening, she doesn't even masturbate. To me its tantamount to rape, its humiliating when I tried.
Once or twice my wife has offered to try and I couldn't put myself through being let down, so I declined. This is now a major bone of contention between us. Many times I've made advances and this is thrown in my face. "You can't finish when sex is available and last time you didn't want sex when I initiated, so no." Or at least she said something to that effect.
Its been 6 months or so at this point with nothing and we can't talk about it without some sort of resentment or misunderstanding.
Here again my issues are making it impossible for things to get back to normal. I've tried to start over sexually, going back to simple interactions like before we'd had intercourse when we were dating, and maybe ramping back up to sex eventually should the opportunity present. I couldn't handle it, it never led anywhere over weeks of trying. I get all worked up and she is at best disinterested, more often than not she's annoyed. So there's resentment and guilt. Its everything I can do to not be antagonistic. Anger I don't want to express to her cause its my failing. Occasionally I'll say something hurtful and I'm ashamed of that.
I just want her to want sex, at this point I don't even care if she wants me. At least then I could associate with that. Her lack of interest in sex as a whole is alien and confusing to me. I'm just frustrated and lost.
I don't know where I sit on the libido spectrum, I've only had one sexual partner. I do know that my partner and I are likely a severe mismatch in this regard. Since early adulthood I have craved sexual attention a couple of times a day, and stifled it or took care of things personally.(Apologies for the detail there.) "There won't ever be such opportunity," I'd tell myself. As I have aged I know morning, noon and night is unrealistic and can deal. I don't want sex even daily, just something sometimes. Something meaningful, loving, on occasion would be enough I think.
Its gone.
I'll never step out of our marriage, but I think about leaving all the time. She feels like my room mate not my wife.
I keep telling myself its lack of opportunity.
Or maybe its hormones from breastfeeding.
I think its maybe the history of sexual misunderstandings between us.
I know nothing to help myself. I've probably said too much, and she'd not forgive me for this much.
As much as I love my wife I can't help thinking I should never have married her just for love. Couldn't we have just been friends and I married some one else just for sex? Sex is the one thing I refuse to do with anyone else. A vow I made and I will keep.
A balance of love and libido seems like an impossibility. She doesn't deserve this harassment from me, don't I deserve a chance at physical love?
Why does this happen?