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Post by Chatter Fox on Dec 28, 2017 8:40:31 GMT -5
So, here's a couple of questions to ponder.
1. When you think of the idea of retirement and you and your spouse being home together every day, how do you feel?
2. When you think of the possibility of your spouse getting sick or incapable as they age, how do you feel about the idea of taking care of them?
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Post by Chatter Fox on Dec 28, 2017 8:51:52 GMT -5
Here's my answers...
1. For retirement, I feel a sense of dread when I think about spending all day every day at home with my spouse. I'll go crazy. Part of that is just how I'm wired though. I need my alone time to just think and be productive in an uninterrupted way. I get that alone time at work. Work is my sanctuary. I don't love my job, but I at least get my much needed alone time. When I think of retirement, I see my sanctuary being torn down. I see being asked to do things by her day in and day out and having to fight to carve out any time for myself. I also see a constant battle for me to get to do the things I want to do together. I certainly don't look forward to it.
2. As for taking care of her in old age, well ... I absolutely positively do NOT want to have to care for her when she gets older. It's not because I"m not a caring man. I certainly am very caring. It's also not because I don't care about my wife. I care about her and her well being. I want to see her happy and taken care of. I just don't think I see myself as being that person that takes care of her. I just have too much resentment about the SM. I haven't felt taken care of for a very long time and it's hard for me to do even the littlest things for her anymore. I used to bend over backwards for her, because I wanted to. I just wanted some reciprocation. I rarely got that reciprocation so my desire to please her slowly dissapated through the years. Now, I think I have very little left to give. I"d like to be with someone that I legitamately WANT to care for when they need me. That's not where I am with her and I can't imagine us ever getting back to that point.
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 28, 2017 9:37:02 GMT -5
Excellent questions, to be sure.
#2 is part of the package, in my opinion. I won't enjoy it. Rather, the problem is getting the plus-side of this equation that's supposed to be all the intimacy and good times together.
#1 is what eats at me. We've started to talk with financial planners the last couple years about how much we need to save for retirement.
That's dredged up a realization that the "end game" means more time with someone who already doesn't relish being with me. It's not a reward to her - I already want to chase her around the house, and she hates that; this won't get any better when I'm home more. And being free to travel is going to lack the intimacy that makes the experience so special.
I've also realized that retirement is only a goal for me, as the sole breadwinner. With kids graduated, she's already been living a retired lifestyle. While I eye the bold possibilities of, say, moving internationally to a low-cost lifestyle that enables retiring 10-15 years early, I've come to realize that has no positives in her book - she's already "retired", so such a move gains her nothing but downsides.
I.e., we seem to have competing interests when it comes to retirement. It's in her interest to keep me working / preoccupied.
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Post by WindSister on Dec 28, 2017 9:54:43 GMT -5
Those questions are what caused me to take quick action ending my first marriage. I have said this before, I say it again. It was a very memorable moment for me. I sat bolt upright in bed awoken from a sound sleep with the terrifying thought that when everyone else is dead and gone, it would just be me and him (my ex in a SM). I couldn't do it. We didn't have a good love, I couldn't stay.
Now I am remarried, and I answer those two questions entirely different with my husband in mind. We are on the same page with retirement, making plans, saving money. I love spending all my time with him except when I want to be alone on a hike (I don't need or want many people in my life). And caring for each other, definitely. Already do.
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Post by northstarmom on Dec 28, 2017 10:17:29 GMT -5
“While I eye the bold possibilities of, say, moving internationally to a low-cost lifestyle that enables retiring 10-15 years early, I've come to realize that has no positives in her book - she's already "retired", so such a move gains her nothing but downsides.”
Imagine the life you could have if you leave her. Post sm lover and I are planning to retire and move abroad in 2018 or 19.!my ex retired and moved abroad. When he floated that idea to me while we were married, I told him he was welcome to do that without me. As is true for you and your wife, the idea of living retired with him was appalling.
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 28, 2017 11:05:34 GMT -5
I can easily agree with all of the answers above. I'll give mine a different slant. my eyes where opened to the very distinct possability that my W. was planning to dump me once the youngest turned 18. All for financial reasons. So she can keep our money as much to herself as possible.
That "theory" has come true in our divorce settlements.
Then there is the truth in watching how my STBX cares for her father living with us. She manipulates others to do her responsibilities. She loves the words "team effort" only when it's to her benefit. I can only imagine what retirement will be like.
Another thought was this. I know several men who are retired. I meet with them every week. One of their sayings is "who's got time anymore, I'm busier now than I was before retirement!". They are still doing housework, volunteering, and going to lots of doctor visits, surgery, and follow up. Rarely do they mention sitting around, or doing things with their wives.
We are all expected to live longer than our parents. How old are you now? Subtract that from 100. Take that number and plan that for your retirement. Consider location, finances, and people that you will be with.
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Post by jim44444 on Dec 28, 2017 11:06:32 GMT -5
So, here's a couple of questions to ponder. 1. When you think of the idea of retirement and you and your spouse being home together every day, how do you feel? I have no need to ponder the question since I retired two years ago. I looked forward to being around my wife more and I do enjoy the time. The day to day interactions are not tightly bound to the SM issues. Unfortunately we have had to modify our goals to accommodate family and health issues. But in spite of those accommodations we still enjoy each others company.2. When you think of the possibility of your spouse getting sick or incapable as they age, how do you feel about the idea of taking care of them? I have been thrust into the role of primary care giver several times during our marriage. It has never been a role I relished but one I accepted as part of being a couple, as part of being me. In practical terms I realize that I will be asked to play that role again and I also realize that the time will come when I will not be up to the task. In my opinion, if a person cannot envision being with their mate 24/7 or is resentful at the thought of being their caregiver then it is time to get out. And get out now, not at some fuzzy future date when the stars are properly aligned. None of us is getting younger, each day is one less we have to live in this state.
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Post by orangepeel on Dec 28, 2017 11:19:52 GMT -5
I’m filled with horror at 1 and have no problem with 2. I think that’s probably because I reckon we’re just totally incompatible: she’s a nice person, but not the person for me (and the other way round). So I’m not made for being with her, but would look after her.
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Post by M2G on Dec 28, 2017 11:40:42 GMT -5
1) If sex/SM was off the table as an issue (either by a "fix" or an "unable anyway"), then spending time with my W would be a pure joy to me. With the SM looming though not so much, having to see her constantly knowing that touching me disgusts her. There would need to be an open marriage or a don't ask don't tell arrangement.
2) Yes certainly. We have no other family and in any case I see it as my duty, and one I would certainly fulfill.
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Post by ironhamster on Dec 28, 2017 13:57:19 GMT -5
1. Like shit. 2. Resentful.
I've been the source of every dollar in her life for a long time. I am used to working. Even before the blowup earlier this month I did not relish the idea of spending more time with her. I need to keep trying to make this work, but my four year plan might only last another nine months.
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Post by choosinghappy on Dec 28, 2017 15:44:52 GMT -5
So, here's a couple of questions to ponder. 1. When you think of the idea of retirement and you and your spouse being home together every day, how do you feel? 2. When you think of the possibility of your spouse getting sick or incapable as they age, how do you feel about the idea of taking care of them? 1. Anxious. We don’t spend much time together now and when we do, I’m not sure either of us enjoys it. I would prefer to move to a community where there is a lot to do, activities, people to see, etc as I am outgoing and enjoy being active. I’m pretty sure he would sit in the house alone. 2. For some reason I feel less anxious about that happening. Almost like then I’d be able to show him how much I love him by being a caregiver. I could do physical things for him that I’m not “allowed” to do now because he has a problem with touch and sex. Or maybe I just like the idea of him needing me and appreciating me being there for him since I don’t feel that now.
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Post by northstarmom on Dec 28, 2017 15:54:55 GMT -5
“For some reason I feel less anxious about that happening. Almost like then I’d be able to show him how much I love him by being a caregiver. I could do physical things for him that I’m not “allowed” to do now because he has a problem with touch and sex. Or maybe I just like the idea of him needing me and appreciating me.”
What about if you became chronically ill or disabled and he had to take care of you? If
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Post by wewbwb on Dec 28, 2017 16:29:28 GMT -5
So, here's a couple of questions to ponder. 1. When you think of the idea of retirement and you and your spouse being home together every day, how do you feel? 2. When you think of the possibility of your spouse getting sick or incapable as they age, how do you feel about the idea of taking care of them? Same answer to both.
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Post by JMX on Dec 30, 2017 12:13:06 GMT -5
“For some reason I feel less anxious about that happening. Almost like then I’d be able to show him how much I love him by being a caregiver. I could do physical things for him that I’m not “allowed” to do now because he has a problem with touch and sex. Or maybe I just like the idea of him needing me and appreciating me.” What about if you became chronically ill or disabled and he had to take care of you? If This is where I am curious - how would the group answer - would your partner take care of YOU if you became chronically ill? Would they come to resent you - even to a higher degree than they possibly do now? I am pretty sure I would need paid in home health care and hope my oldest would take care of the logistics and my youngest would come and entertain me occasionally. I believe most of us would be excellent care givers to our spouses/partners.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 12:43:35 GMT -5
What about if you became chronically ill or disabled and he had to take care of you? If Maybe my circumstance is different than everyone else's, but in my infirmities, my wife was her best. It was in my health that she seemed to resent me. She was conciliatory when I came in last place, but extremely hateful when I won. I kept trying to explain to her that my success should reflect well on her, and when it was financial success, she could materially benefit from it. And she should at least try to encourage it and maybe even participate in it. I came to think she was jealous of my life and accomplishments. We always clashed on goals. She is always shooting for average and seems to hate the exceptional things in this world. She's one that never finished anything she started. She's marginal at best. And while I am definitely not exceptional, I try to strive for it, and I've finished the things I started. So if I were planning to live out the rest of my life in bed (sick bed), I definitely would have stayed married.
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