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Post by emptynside on Dec 26, 2017 6:17:28 GMT -5
Hello. Thanks for listening. I needed a place to spill. I am a Christian, in a very challenging job where its hard to be able for share such things as I will here. I have been married for over 20 years. When my wife and I were first dating and engaged, we were very affectionate. She comes from a very legalistic fundamentalist background. I saved my virginity until marriage, and so we never had sex. Wedding night, she was not interested, because she was too tired, so I was understanding and we waited till the second night. Needless to say, she has only really been interested in sex when she wanted to have kids. I can count on my hand the number of times she really has been interested otherwise in sex. Things have really broke down in the last six years. She only wanted sex between 12midnight and 4 in the morning. I am earlybird to bed, she is a nighthawk. I would go to bed and wait up hoping she wanted sex, only to get denied so many times, or have her say "if you want your sex, you can have your sex," and she would try to hurry me and ask me why I was taking so long inside, while she was acting lifeless and not interested in kissing or anything. She said, if the kids were not around she might be interested in daytime sex. What really hurt is that when we had a holiday away from the kids, twice over the last six years, she made it clear she was not interested. She ranted at me for booking the time away together because it was all just about sex. (We had book lots of other things to do, so this was not fully true, though I was hoping for some daytime action). A few years ago, I sought out a therapist and I have been working with them on things, my wife joined in for awhile, but hated it. I am very open about my faults and failures and taking responsibility for my issues and parts in the marriage that are my fault. She on the other hand was angry anytime the therapist made any kind of suggestion that she may have a part to play in all this relationship and struggles. Any sex we had was truly on her part lifeless and completely no affection. Then I started having ED problems because she was not interested and engaged. This made things worse because she started mocking me at times that I wasn't a man and if I wasn't really interested, I should not have wasted her time. She has stopped counselling and I am still continuing, but with a few kids I struggle leaving and especially as a Christian, I feel it would be wrong. Also, sex in some ways has always been boring as she only will have it in one position. If I suggested any other position she would accuse me of porn and wanting her to be one of those "women." This is not true at all, but there are a few other positions that we could at least have tried. I cannot see myself going through another five years of this. If I separate, it will mean a major life change due to current life position. I feel that if someone came across my life today, who was kinds and affectionate, I would be gone as I crave real affection soooooo much. I have tried to deny myself and my feelings over and over. I know I am selfish but I am so close to giving up. There are many other issues I wish I could share, but I feel that this is the safest, otherwise the more I share, I feel as though I will be "found out" and chastised forever. Thanks for listening to my whine session. Sorry to hear and read of the hurt so many of you are going through and experiencing. Life is so messy at times....
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Post by johnwyo1 on Dec 26, 2017 6:34:25 GMT -5
I am very sorry to hear your story as there are so many parallels to my situation. I don't have any solutions, I don't think, but I can commiserate with you. I am a Christian as well and don't want to get a divorce. I've already made that mistake in my first marriage and have decided to persevere this time. My wife is also a night person and due to my job I have to get up early. My wife has rushed me to hurry up and finish sometimes back when we were having sex more regularly. We tried therapy and my wife quit but I kept going for several years on my own. My wife has accused me of porn use also and made the same sort of statements about wanting her to be like those women. All of that hurts a lot, I know.
I don't think you are being selfish. I think you have found a pretty safe space to talk about this and other issues in your marriage. Life is messy for sure. I can just encourage you not to give up hope, have faith, be faithful to the One who is faithful to you, and live right according to your beliefs. I've found that to be a source of reassurance and comfort. That doesn't fix the lack of intimacy, the lack of sex, the desire to be touched, or all the rest I am craving, but it does make life livable.
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Post by M2G on Dec 26, 2017 6:51:27 GMT -5
Welcome and sorry your relationship has led you here. Your wife is not interested in sex - why, is not important. What is important is to accept that you and your wife are sexually incompatible and you can't make someone want to have sex with you. If you've been perusing this form then you probably know the three solutions: cheat, leave or live with it. Coming from me, well, I must admit I am still trying to turn my SM around - however my W was not always adverse with having sex with me. At one point she wanted sex as much as I do, but now we have a lot of interpersonal issues going on. To try and turn around a SM when one partner never, ever wanted sex except to have children - is like trying to move a mountain of rock with a wet noodle. (I at least have a dry noodle ) You could go into 1 Corinthians 7 - however the first verse is going to get you steamrolled. In any case, do you want to make love to a woman by arguing her into submission? What I read in your backstory speaks otherwise. I totally sympathize. Near the beginning of our now 6-year dry spell, my W was placating me with oral. I finally put a stop to that because the thought of duty sex makes my skin crawl. Positions, are the least of your problems. ..Wish I had something better to tell you - but there are no magic formulas in this forum. What you will find, are a lot of experienced people offering you support - many with the exact issue you have: saving sex for marriage only to find out that your marriage bed is barren lie. So sorry - and welcome once again.
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Post by emptynside on Dec 26, 2017 6:58:44 GMT -5
I am very sorry to hear your story as there are so many parallels to my situation. I don't have any solutions, I don't think, but I can commiserate with you. I am a Christian as well and don't want to get a divorce. I've already made that mistake in my first marriage and have decided to persevere this time. My wife is also a night person and due to my job I have to get up early. My wife has rushed me to hurry up and finish sometimes back when we were having sex more regularly. We tried therapy and my wife quit but I kept going for several years on my own. My wife has accused me of porn use also and made the same sort of statements about wanting her to be like those women. All of that hurts a lot, I know. I don't think you are being selfish. I think you have found a pretty safe space to talk about this and other issues in your marriage. Life is messy for sure. I can just encourage you not to give up hope, have faith, be faithful to the One who is faithful to you, and live right according to your beliefs. I've found that to be a source of reassurance and comfort. That doesn't fix the lack of intimacy, the lack of sex, the desire to be touched, or all the rest I am craving, but it does make life livable. Thanks joywhyo1! I really appreciate your encouragement. Nice to know I'm not alone. Sorry to hear of the challenges you and your wife are facing as well. As a Christian, don't you feel that its hard to talk sometimes about these things??? It shouldn't but I know if my circles their is a huge shame culture. I have friends who have divorced and I am always trying to be an encouragement and help. I am so glad a few of them are well, one is now pursuing ministry which is great, his first marriage fell apart rapidly while he was in theological school. I am impress that you are continuing with therapy. I find it helpful to have someone to talk to, especially in my position. When I tried to talk to a few people whom I should trust, even a pastor, I was told if I don't make things work my life will be destroyed. So I have just kept in... Why did your wife quit therapy? If you are comfortable sharing? Also, do you mind me asking why you split from your first wife? I am afraid of other relationships, even getting a hug from friends, due to the lack of affection in my own relationship, I crave hugs but am a bit afraid. Bless you!!!!
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Post by johnwyo1 on Dec 26, 2017 7:11:13 GMT -5
Thanks joywhyo1! I really appreciate your encouragement. Nice to know I'm not alone. Sorry to hear of the challenges you and your wife are facing as well. As a Christian, don't you feel that its hard to talk sometimes about these things??? It shouldn't but I know if my circles their is a huge shame culture. I have friends who have divorced and I am always trying to be an encouragement and help. I am so glad a few of them are well, one is now pursuing ministry which is great, his first marriage fell apart rapidly while he was in theological school. I am impress that you are continuing with therapy. I find it helpful to have someone to talk to, especially in my position. When I tried to talk to a few people whom I should trust, even a pastor, I was told if I don't make things work my life will be destroyed. So I have just kept in... Why did your wife quit therapy? If you are comfortable sharing? Also, do you mind me asking why you split from your first wife? I am afraid of other relationships, even getting a hug from friends, due to the lack of affection in my own relationship, I crave hugs but am a bit afraid. Bless you!!!! I do want to encourage you because I believe there is always hope. You are definitely not alone. As a Christian, it is very hard to talk about these things. There is no way I could go to my pastor about this situation. His gift is not in counseling, first of all, and he would want to talk with my wife and I together so she would then feel terribly embarrassed and accuse me of violating our secrets to him. Anyway, there can also be a lot of shame in the culture, you are right. I did continue for therapy after my wife quit going together and did so for several years until my therapist moved to another state. I do miss having my therapist's advice and listening on all sorts of issues. She was great. I hope you don't keep things in. For me, being able to get therapy with her meant that was able to better discern where I was being selfish, if that was so, and where I was right about things with my wife. My wife quit therapy because the therapist was very even handed about pointing out where both of us needed to work on things. My wife could not handle that. Also, the therapist wanted to work on the things from our past, such as things that happened in our birth families. Both of those went to places my wife could not or would not go. She was and still is not able to accept her responsibility for her problems in our relationship. And, she can't work on the trauma from her father and the problems with her twisted brother. She got too upset and wouldn't go back. I divorced my first wife after I caught her in an affair with a guy she dated in high school. I walked in on her still in bed after he had left. More or less in flagrante delicto. I tried to keep the marriage going but she ran off. After she disappeared with my son, I moved for the divorce because I knew we couldn't reconcile. I, too, can be afraid of hugs and other relationships. Where I live everyone hugs. When a certain friend of ours hugs me, it is body to body and she smells so good, she lingers. Soooo dangerous and enticing. I miss hugs and intimacy, tenderness, very much. Bless you and I will pray for you.
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Post by brian on Dec 26, 2017 7:11:56 GMT -5
I am very sorry to hear your story as there are so many parallels to my situation. I don't have any solutions, I don't think, but I can commiserate with you. I am a Christian as well and don't want to get a divorce. I've already made that mistake in my first marriage and have decided to persevere this time. My wife is also a night person and due to my job I have to get up early. My wife has rushed me to hurry up and finish sometimes back when we were having sex more regularly. We tried therapy and my wife quit but I kept going for several years on my own. My wife has accused me of porn use also and made the same sort of statements about wanting her to be like those women. All of that hurts a lot, I know. I don't think you are being selfish. I think you have found a pretty safe space to talk about this and other issues in your marriage. Life is messy for sure. I can just encourage you not to give up hope, have faith, be faithful to the One who is faithful to you, and live right according to your beliefs. I've found that to be a source of reassurance and comfort. That doesn't fix the lack of intimacy, the lack of sex, the desire to be touched, or all the rest I am craving, but it does make life livable. Thanks joywhyo1! I really appreciate your encouragement. Nice to know I'm not alone. Sorry to hear of the challenges you and your wife are facing as well. As a Christian, don't you feel that its hard to talk sometimes about these things??? It shouldn't but I know if my circles their is a huge shame culture. I have friends who have divorced and I am always trying to be an encouragement and help. I am so glad a few of them are well, one is now pursuing ministry which is great, his first marriage fell apart rapidly while he was in theological school. I am impress that you are continuing with therapy. I find it helpful to have someone to talk to, especially in my position. When I tried to talk to a few people whom I should trust, even a pastor, I was told if I don't make things work my life will be destroyed. So I have just kept in... Why did your wife quit therapy? If you are comfortable sharing? Also, do you mind me asking why you split from your first wife? I am afraid of other relationships, even getting a hug from friends, due to the lack of affection in my own relationship, I crave hugs but am a bit afraid. Bless you!!!! "...your life will be destroyed..." Depends heavily on your situation. Is the implication here about your job? Friendships? Public persona? Is your "public face" worth a life of misery? I would offer one additional viewpoint here on that statement... if you don't make things work, and this could be via a divorce, the animosity and loneliness WILL destroy your life. There was a time, not so long ago, that I could never fathom having sex with someone other than my wife. That all changed after about 18yrs of "sexlessness" and the burning inside of me finally burst through (not due to a person) and I am now quite open to being with others, if it were to ever be offered, until I work through my issues about leaving for good. What may be tolerable now, may not be tolerable later. That journey took me 18yrs of "sexless" misery.
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Post by brian on Dec 26, 2017 7:18:05 GMT -5
"...your life will be destroyed..." Depends heavily on your situation. Is the implication here about your job? Friendships? Public persona? Is your "public face" worth a life of misery? I would offer one additional viewpoint here on that statement... if you don't make things work, and this could be via a divorce, the animosity and loneliness WILL destroy your life. There was a time, not so long ago, that I could never fathom having sex with someone other than my wife. That all changed after about 18yrs of "sexlessness" and the burning inside of me finally burst through (not due to a person) and I am now quite open to being with others, if it were to ever be offered, until I work through my issues about leaving for good. What may be tolerable now, may not be tolerable later. That journey took me 18yrs of "sexless" misery. I should add that I was ready to divorce her 6 months in, but when I talked to my father about it he was in tears. I let his perception and feelings dictate my actions... I didn't want to disappoint him. That decision cost me 20 years of happiness. Do things for yourself and your sanity. You can't always do things for others. Your well WILL run dry, eventually.
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Post by h on Dec 26, 2017 7:20:19 GMT -5
The fact that she belittles you, makes fun of your ED issues that she has caused, and has willfully broken her marriage vows to you, shows that she had no respect for you at all. Coming at this from a Christian perspective, wives are supposed to show respect for their husbands. By this, I don't mean that they should be subservient, but should avoid being like your wife is clearly acting towards you. Also, sex in marriage is a right that can't be denied by either spouse in a Christian marriage according to 1 Corinthians 7. Have you talked to your pastor or someone else at your church? If you are serious about your Christian faith, then involving the church is the next step. Then if you eventually decide you do have to divorce, the reason will be known and it is a biblically legitimate one.
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Post by M2G on Dec 26, 2017 9:24:03 GMT -5
The fact that she belittles you, makes fun of your ED issues that she has caused, and has willfully broken her marriage vows to you, shows that she had no respect for you at all. Coming at this from a Christian perspective, wives are supposed to show respect for their husbands. By this, I don't mean that they should be subservient, but should avoid being like your wife is clearly acting towards you. Also, sex in marriage is a right that can't be denied by either spouse in a Christian marriage according to 1 Corinthians 7. Have you talked to your pastor or someone else at your church? If you are serious about your Christian faith, then involving the church is the next step. Then if you eventually decide you do have to divorce, the reason will be known and it is a biblically legitimate one. Yes - but good idea on getting the clergy involved, else she will stop reading at: "Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.”"
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Post by emptynside on Dec 26, 2017 10:31:41 GMT -5
"...your life will be destroyed..." Depends heavily on your situation. Is the implication here about your job? Friendships? Public persona? Is your "public face" worth a life of misery? I would offer one additional viewpoint here on that statement... if you don't make things work, and this could be via a divorce, the animosity and loneliness WILL destroy your life. There was a time, not so long ago, that I could never fathom having sex with someone other than my wife. That all changed after about 18yrs of "sexlessness" and the burning inside of me finally burst through (not due to a person) and I am now quite open to being with others, if it were to ever be offered, until I work through my issues about leaving for good. What may be tolerable now, may not be tolerable later. That journey took me 18yrs of "sexless" misery. I should add that I was ready to divorce her 6 months in, but when I talked to my father about it he was in tears. I let his perception and feelings dictate my actions... I didn't want to disappoint him. That decision cost me 20 years of happiness. Do things for yourself and your sanity. You can't always do things for others. Your well WILL run dry, eventually. A minister, yes, working personally with a licenced therapist right now.
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Post by emptynside on Dec 26, 2017 10:34:20 GMT -5
The fact that she belittles you, makes fun of your ED issues that she has caused, and has willfully broken her marriage vows to you, shows that she had no respect for you at all. Coming at this from a Christian perspective, wives are supposed to show respect for their husbands. By this, I don't mean that they should be subservient, but should avoid being like your wife is clearly acting towards you. Also, sex in marriage is a right that can't be denied by either spouse in a Christian marriage according to 1 Corinthians 7. Have you talked to your pastor or someone else at your church? If you are serious about your Christian faith, then involving the church is the next step. Then if you eventually decide you do have to divorce, the reason will be known and it is a biblically legitimate one. Yes - but good idea on getting the clergy involved, else she will stop reading at: "Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.”" I am the minister, working with a licenced therapist. If I leave, I have to sever ties with church, find a new job, and this also included having to make a huge move, because I will not be allowed to stay where I am living at the moment. I feel trapped.
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Post by orangepeel on Dec 26, 2017 11:04:13 GMT -5
‘I know I am selfish but I am so close to giving up.’
The first half of this sentence is simply NOT TRUE. The first thing you should do, before even thinking about your wife, is assuring yourself of this.
Look at yourself clearly and then look at others: you are not the villain.
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Post by northstarmom on Dec 26, 2017 11:12:34 GMT -5
“I am the minister, working with a licenced therapist. If I leave, I have to sever ties with church, find a new job, and this also included having to make a huge move, because I will not be allowed to stay where I am living at the moment. I feel trapped.”
I have a minister who did exactly that and now is flourishing as a minister in a different denomination 1,500 miles from his original church. He had to break ties to be his authentic self. He was gay and in a gay-banning denomination. He pondered the move for years.
Only you know if you’d prefer the status quo to risking being your authentic self by divorcing a woman who has never been a real wife.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2017 11:46:21 GMT -5
emptynside, you are not being selfish to want sex inside your marriage. I'd say your expectations are spot on and it is your wife who is being selfish and untrue to the vows. Of course we each have our own flaws, but if you are coming to the table willing to admit and work on yours, then you'll need her to be doing the same. I think it's pretty hard (if not impossible) to make progress with someone who refuses to be accountable for their mistakes. I'm very sorry you're in this situation. I don't have solutions, but I would point you to a fellow Christian member, csl, who has a wonderful, theology-laden blog called the Curmudgeonly Librarian. I hope you can find some answers there and maybe even turn your situation around. If your wife is a committed Christian, I would think some of this will speak to her. If you have God first in your marriage or the desire to put Him there, I see lots of hope for you. Best wishes!
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Post by h on Dec 26, 2017 12:43:34 GMT -5
emptynside , you are not being selfish to want sex inside your marriage. I'd say your expectations are spot on and it is your wife who is being selfish and untrue to the vows. Of course we each have our own flaws, but if you are coming to the table willing to admit and work on yours, then you'll need her to be doing the same. I think it's pretty hard (if not impossible) to make progress with someone who refuses to be accountable for their mistakes. I'm very sorry you're in this situation. I don't have solutions, but I would point you to a fellow Christian member, csl , who has a wonderful, theology-laden blog called the Curmudgeonly Librarian. I hope you can find some answers there and maybe even turn your situation around. If your wife is a committed Christian, I would think some of this will speak to her. If you have God first in your marriage or the desire to put Him there, I see lots of hope for you. Best wishes! I'll second that. csl is the go-to guy on scripture as it relates to this situation.
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