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Post by choosinghappy on Dec 21, 2017 0:00:36 GMT -5
How often do you talk with your refuser spouse about your SM? About how unhappy you are, about what you wish your marriage was like, or suggestions for things to try to improve the situation?
I’ve been thinking lately that perhaps I’m letting my H “off the hook” by almost never bringing it up. He’s in therapy trying to deal with his issues and hopefully discovering what he may or may not be capable of sexually and intimately in this marriage, and I am just allowing him this time (an undisclosed amount of time that is,) to do this. All while I just play the good little wifey and almost never bring it up so it doesn’t derail whatever progress I am just hoping he’s making.
The thing is, I don’t want to upset the peace we have in our household. NO, I’m not happy with our SM -we have talked about it quite a few times - but maybe me not bringing it up regularly is making him think it’s not as big of a deal to me as it is or that it’s not hard for me every single second of the day.
So how often do you bring it up? And in what form? Sit down discussions? Snide comments? Screaming fights? I’m not sure any of these would do any good for my situation at the moment beyond just making us both miserable.
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Post by M2G on Dec 21, 2017 0:18:10 GMT -5
Not worth it. W will not discuss, its a "boundary" you see. Last and final time I pushed the issue she put the blame on me. Wish she would just say "I don't want to fuck you anymore" but oh no, she won't go there either.
That's fine, because 6 years of faithful celibacy is, for me, quite long enough.
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Post by ironhamster on Dec 21, 2017 1:00:09 GMT -5
The frequency of discussions has been all over the place over the years. The topics never focussed on our sexless marriage, but about why she was not in the mood or why I was always in the mood.
Most often, they would happen in the bed. They were calm until about three years ago when I stopped taking her claims at face value, and stopped accepting blame. We never had any screaming fights until this year.
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Post by baza on Dec 21, 2017 1:11:43 GMT -5
Bear in mind I am out of my deal, so I am commenting from my position as it once was - not as it presently is. Back in the day of my ILIASM deal, just like you Sister choosinghappy , I too didn't "want to upset the peace we had in our household". Short term that was easily handled by the simple expedient of going along with everything she wanted and eschewing everything she didn't want. That worked great for keeping the peace, and it worked great for my missus - for a while. It didn't work for me at all - after a while. "Peace at all costs" is not peace at all. It is just delaying the day of reckoning. Did we discuss it ? Yeah. But only a few times. Those few times turned in to arguements and finger pointing etc and achieved nothing. Nor did counselling etc. I usually don't need to be told something more than once or twice, so from then on, the matter was rarely discussed. Why bother ? Her actions said everything that needed to be said. Words were superfluous. I just regarded her as pretty irrelevant as a spouse and didn't engage at that "married couple" level any further. Funnily enough, that put us on the same page as far as the marriage went, although she still wanted to put on an act for the wider community. She was a good Financial Partner though, and that was the basis of how we stumbled onward toward 30 years. Some people might regard a marriage that survived for 30 years a big success ! I personally am not necessarily of that opinion. Anyway, toward the end, she started to engage in behaviours that threatened the Financial Partnership, the only decent thing remaining. That torpedoed the deal. We split.
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Post by bballgirl on Dec 21, 2017 5:36:31 GMT -5
I did not bring it up often enough. It was brought up but my exH never heard the words "if we do not have sex then I will want a divorce". In my deal we had a lot of other problems too: financial especially. When I announced the divorce he was blindsided but it doesn't mean divorce was the wrong thing for us. The one thing I regret was not nagging him more for sex even to have just annoyed him however that's not me- I'm not the type to nag and honestly now it boils down to - I don't want sex with someone that doesn't want sex with me.
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Post by northstarmom on Dec 21, 2017 7:55:16 GMT -5
I used to bring up our complete sexlessness every few years. Nothing changed. He’d act like he needed time to think about the problem. I gave him years to respond. He didn’t. Nothing changed.
I started telling close women friends about the sm. That was productive because they told my my marriage was abnormal, my desires were normal, I am attractive, my husband was being unkind and acting in an abnormal way.
Due to such conversations, I realized I deserved better. I realized I couldn’t make him want me. I also realized I no longer wanted him. There was no point in wanting someone who didn’t desire me.
I asked for a divorce. He quickly agreed. Ended up he had a woman on the side and at age 61 thought he’d fathered her toddler.
I’m now 66 and 4 years into a relationship with the love of my life. We enjoy sex. We talk about it, too. We talk about what we enjoy and we also talk during sex. Those are fun and productive conversations very unlike the useless sex talks I had with my ex. If you have to explain, persuade or beg someone to have sex with you, you are not sexually compatible. They are incapable of loving you the way you desire.
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Post by h on Dec 21, 2017 17:06:04 GMT -5
I wish I had brought it up sooner and more often. Maybe I could have saved myself many years of pain and neglect. choosinghappy maybe you should ask his therapist for advice on how to bring it up and when.
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Post by Frustrated1978 on Dec 21, 2017 18:34:56 GMT -5
After a while there's no point in bringing it up. The Refusers actions are loud and clear. However last night was the exception. My wife stated whilst in bed her new years resolution was to save more money. (Mind you we are financially comfortable) She had concluded that my Foxtel Subscription had to go. (For those that know my back story from the original Sister Forum to this would know that the abolition of my Foxtel Subscription has been a long term goal of hers for many years.)
My response was Foxtel will never be going. Why would i part with something that gives me pleasure and joy? It's not like i get pleasure or joy from sex.
The look she shot me was like i'd asked her to donate her right kidney.
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Post by orangepeel on Dec 21, 2017 18:49:14 GMT -5
I’ve raised it twice - verbally - and she reacted like Sugar Ray Leonard on the ropes when Tommy the Hitman Hearns seemed to have him at his mercy. He just couldn’t land the blow, just like I couldn’t get a straight answer out of a woman avoiding sex for five years. You’d have thought the question “Do you think it’s normal we haven’t had sex for five years?” merits an answer, but you’d be wrong.
(Mind you, this community knows whereof I speak, methinks,)
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Post by takestwototango on Dec 21, 2017 22:08:24 GMT -5
I've brought it up many times, but it almost always becomes an arguement & my fault that he does not want to have sex with me. He insists he's not cheating & that he still finds me very attractive, he just doesn't have any drive. Or, there's the fall-back that he's afraid he will have another heart attack & die, even though his heart dr said he is good to go in the sex dept. The excuses for not wanting or desiring sex are endless. Counseling starts in a few weeks, thank God. Even if it doesn't help the sm, I know it will help me!
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Post by james on Dec 22, 2017 4:03:52 GMT -5
My experience is: it doesn't actually matter. It's irrelevant whether or not, or how often, you bring it up. It doesn't make any difference. For the first few years, I would bring the subject up once or twice a year, in as calm a way as possible. She would generally give me quite a cold look and say that she would think about it or some other words equivalent to "this is going into the long grass". More recently, I bring it up much more often. This is usually in response to her recently oft-repeated suggestion that "there seems to be a barrier between us". She is right there. I am no longer offering any kind of intimacy at all, beyond a peck on the lips or cheek when I leave for work. No hugs, cuddles, hand-holding on offer from me, though if she offers, then I kind of accept (not always, see current DARVO thread). So we are well on the way, if not arrived at, the point of being roomies. Others here have stated that the only thing that makes a difference is the variety of nuclear options (I am leaving, I am divorcing, I am outsourcing) which should be placed on the table and then acted upon without any delay in order to retain full credibility. Words on there own are fairly meaningless.
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Post by snowman12345 on Dec 22, 2017 6:15:05 GMT -5
I brought it up once, had a huge screaming match. Brought it up a second time and I told her I would leave if things did not change. Things changed a little, she still plays the avoidance card - but every once in a while I get some from her. Thing is, now I really couldn't care less if it happens as I am having meaningless sex elsewhere. My motto is "Don't give a fuck and keep your options open."
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 6:15:56 GMT -5
I’ve been thinking lately that perhaps I’m letting my H “off the hook” by almost never bringing it up. He’s in therapy trying to deal with his issues and hopefully discovering what he may or may not be capable of sexually and intimately in this marriage, and I am just allowing him this time (an undisclosed amount of time that is,) to do this. All while I just play the good little wifey and almost never bring it up so it doesn’t derail whatever progress I am just hoping he’s making. I think that, if he is truly committed to changing and making things better, you can reasonably (and politely) expect/demand a status report of what he is accomplishing in therapy instead of just "hoping" that he's making progress. If he is moving at all in a positive direction, even if it will take a long time, at least there is a comfort there and it could help lessen your frustration. I can understand that he doesn't want to go over his childhood traumas with you in detail, but he should be able to communicate with you something about where he is at and how far he thinks he has come. And honestly, if he loves you as you say he does, he should want to share even the painful parts with you, IMHO. I've made the mistake of sharing old painful memories with my wife and having her use them against me later, but my goal at the time was to be as transparent as possible with my own issues to help move forward in our relationship and to address her own issues with me. But he shouldn't have that fear with you.
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Post by shamwow on Dec 22, 2017 6:42:45 GMT -5
Not worth it. W will not discuss, its a "boundary" you see. Last and final time I pushed the issue she put the blame on me. Wish she would just say "I don't want to fuck you anymore" but oh no, she won't go there either. That's fine, because 6 years of faithful celibacy is, for me, quite long enough. I believe you meant the words "one way"after the word faithful. Yes, now the sentence look more complete.
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Post by worksforme2 on Dec 22, 2017 7:01:37 GMT -5
The question in my mind ism "what is the purpose of bringing it up more than you currently do"? When I was married and brought it up probably 3 times a year the purpose was to make her realize just how much damage she was doing and that there would inevitably be consequences if her behavior didn't change. The most dire consequence being the marriage would be damaged beyond repair. You are thinking you might be giving your H a pass. Maybe so. But how many times should one have to tell one's spouse how damaging and hurtful their behavior is before expecting some sort of change? 3 times, 5, 8. And after 5 times do you really think upping the frequency will be the magic bullet that turns things around? Experience here tells us that is extremely unlikely. Any # of stories here (including mine)speak to dropping the D bomb if there's no change. Turns out separation and divorce came a knocking irrespective of the # or frequency of talks. If your goal is to measure the progress he makes in addressing his own demons that's different as it represents your desire to help him toward a state of wellness emotionally. Just don't chase the frequency of bringing it up as another potential "why" he isn't responding to your efforts to turn things around.
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