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Post by james on Dec 6, 2017 3:27:18 GMT -5
ladytjb This is probably an oversimplification but I don't see how: Let your husband know how much pain you are in. Don't hold back. Tell him what you are telling us. Whether it is in a letter or in person. Make sure he understands the depth of your pain. If he still loves you he will take action. He will cry at your pain. How can he not? The person he loves is in pain, because of his inactivity, how can he let this happen? Maybe there's a medical issue or a psychological issue. But if he loves you then he is the one that should be trying to fix this...for the woman he loves. If he doesn't care, blows you off, makes excuses, laughs it off....then you have a much bigger problem. But better to know it sooner than later. There are a lot of bitter people in your situation for years. Don't become one of us. I completely agree with this. It is vital that you find a way of explaining to your husband the effect that his inaction is having on you in terms that are completely understandable and unambiguous to him. You do not have to do this in an angry way, in fact it is far, far better if you do it in a calm and measured way (see an author I am fond of citing on this forum: Gary Chapman, Anger: taming a powerful emotion). Every single one of us on this site is angry, and rightly so. But it boils down to this: what are you going to do with your anger?
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Post by choosinghappy on Dec 6, 2017 12:08:24 GMT -5
Welcome ladytjb. I'm sorry you find yourself here. A LOT of what you have said about your marriage resonates with me, right down to the same amount of time together: Together 10 years, married for 5. This is a very tough place to be in, particularly because you are still in love with your H. I am too. We also spend a lot of time apart (in my case it is due to my H's work travel). In ways I find that it is helping me learn how to live without him if I were to choose divorce. Right now though, my choice is to try to work on it together. He is in therapy and we have been to therapy together. In my case I know that the lack of intimacy and sex is due to him being asexual as a result of childhood sexual abuse. Once the reason "why" was defined, it made it harder to lie to myself about my situation. I agree with previous posters that you need to make your pain known to him, in no uncertain terms. What he does next will tell you a lot about how he feels about your marriage and indeed, you. Once I truly made my pain known to my H he went into an intensive therapy program the very next day. I am currently in limbo as I wait to see what he might be capable of within our marriage. I wish you luck with this, I know it is NOT easy. You are in good company here though. ((Hugs))
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Post by Apocrypha on Dec 6, 2017 12:59:54 GMT -5
ladytjb This is probably an oversimplification but I don't see how: Let your husband know how much pain you are in. Don't hold back. Tell him what you are telling us. Whether it is in a letter or in person. Make sure he understands the depth of your pain. If he still loves you he will take action. He will cry at your pain. How can he not? The person he loves is in pain, because of his inactivity, how can he let this happen? Maybe there's a medical issue or a psychological issue. But if he loves you then he is the one that should be trying to fix this...for the woman he loves. If he doesn't care, blows you off, makes excuses, laughs it off....then you have a much bigger problem. But better to know it sooner than later. There are a lot of bitter people in your situation for years. Don't become one of us. I completely agree with this. It is vital that you find a way of explaining to your husband the effect that his inaction is having on you in terms that are completely understandable and unambiguous to him. You do not have to do this in an angry way, in fact it is far, far better if you do it in a calm and measured way (see an author I am fond of citing on this forum: Gary Chapman, Anger: taming a powerful emotion). Every single one of us on this site is angry, and rightly so. But it boils down to this: what are you going to do with your anger? This assumes that his not having sex with her is inaction. I don't see the basis for this assumption. They are married. They live together. They both have sex drives. One of them is pressing to have sex and the other resisting. In the context of a marriage, not having sex is the logical action that results from an aversion to sex with one's partner. Not having sex is a costly action - not only for the reasons you have adequately laid out above but also because (unless he is having an affair) he is choosing celibacy over his own sex drive. For him, though, it is less costly than having sex with someone who he doesn't desire. Do you really think that if they were separated, that would be the end of sex for him, forever? How long do you think before that Tinder account goes up, realistically? From his standpoint, he likely IS trying to fix this by trying to have the least possible sex with his partner while still hanging on to the other benefits of the relationship in which they are both invested, and by enduring or managing the tension that results from that. Empathy - understanding and anticipating your partner's perspective can help release you from the anger, while also truly grasping the scale of what you are up against. It's not that hard to have sex, but how do you create desire? Try it in the singles world and see how far it goes.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2017 19:34:49 GMT -5
ApocryphaI don't agree. Spouses can be clueless, or they can be in denial. They can truly think they love their partners and that there is nothing wrong. And too often the partners cannot convey their pain and frustration in a way that the refuser can even hear, let alone understand. My advice was a little oversimple - some refusers might regard tears as an attack, as my W often does, while calm talking might make others think that the problem can't be THAT bad if the person shows no emotion. People have lots of defense mechanisms that go very deep before they can realize that they are the source of the partner's frustration. But IF the refused knows how to get the message of real pain across in a way that the refuser can understand, and IF the refuser really does love the refused, then the refuser would naturally want to change. If the refuser doesn't own the issue, after being made to understand (and preferably to repeat or restate it), then the problem is with the entire marriage, not just sex - there's too little trust, communication, empathy and the rest of the things that are needed for a good relationship.
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Post by shamwow on Dec 6, 2017 19:41:24 GMT -5
I've heard that exact line before. It must have been 2 years ago. Guess what never happened naturally (or at all)? Sex just doesn't come naturally to the sexless. Thank you!! Sometimes the reality is that you have to schedule the time together. The act itself can be as spontaneous as you make it. Not if he dreads it.
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Post by james on Dec 7, 2017 3:34:24 GMT -5
There are couples for whom that approach (scheduling) definitely works. Unsurprisingly, we tend not to hear about those couples on this site- they never make it here because they don't actually have a problem of any significance. I tried scheduling sex with my wife. The first time it was ok. The second time she asked me to massage her shoulders for about 1/2 hour, then, after some reluctance on her part, we did it. We didn't make a third time. In advance of the scheduled time, she said: "This scheduling is just creating an expectation that we are going to have sex". I didn't try again.
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Post by shamwow on Dec 7, 2017 7:24:15 GMT -5
There are couples for whom that approach (scheduling) definitely works. Unsurprisingly, we tend not to hear about those couples on this site- they never make it here because they don't actually have a problem of any significance. I tried scheduling sex with my wife. The first time it was ok. The second time she asked me to massage her shoulders for about 1/2 hour, then, after some reluctance on her part, we did it. We didn't make a third time. In advance of the scheduled time, she said: "This scheduling is just creating an expectation that we are going to have sex". I didn't try again. I wonder if she would say the same about vacation "This scheduling is just creating the expectation we will spend the night in a hotel." Somehow I don't imagine she complains about vacations. That's because vacations are something she ENJOYS.
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 7, 2017 8:31:17 GMT -5
There are couples for whom that approach (scheduling) definitely works. Unsurprisingly, we tend not to hear about those couples on this site- they never make it here because they don't actually have a problem of any significance. I tried scheduling sex with my wife. The first time it was ok. The second time she asked me to massage her shoulders for about 1/2 hour, then, after some reluctance on her part, we did it. We didn't make a third time. In advance of the scheduled time, she said: "This scheduling is just creating an expectation that we are going to have sex". I didn't try again. I wonder if she would say the same about vacation "This scheduling is just creating the expectation we will spend the night in a hotel." Somehow I don't imagine she complains about vacations. That's because vacations are something she ENJOYS. There is always this classic. www.ebaumsworld.com/jokes/my-needs/80925903/
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Post by csl on Dec 7, 2017 12:22:42 GMT -5
There are couples for whom that approach (scheduling) definitely works. Unsurprisingly, we tend not to hear about those couples on this site- they never make it here because they don't actually have a problem of any significance. I tried scheduling sex with my wife. The first time it was ok. The second time she asked me to massage her shoulders for about 1/2 hour, then, after some reluctance on her part, we did it. We didn't make a third time. In advance of the scheduled time, she said: "This scheduling is just creating an expectation that we are going to have sex". I didn't try again. Ah, for dumb!! "Scheduling sex creates an expectation for sex!" Hello? That's the purpose of the scheduling! What she's not getting is that scheduling, having that expectation for sex means that she doesn't have to spend the rest of her time AVOIDING sex, because of no expectations. Sheesh!
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Post by ironhamster on Dec 7, 2017 12:36:27 GMT -5
There are couples for whom that approach (scheduling) definitely works. Unsurprisingly, we tend not to hear about those couples on this site- they never make it here because they don't actually have a problem of any significance. I tried scheduling sex with my wife. The first time it was ok. The second time she asked me to massage her shoulders for about 1/2 hour, then, after some reluctance on her part, we did it. We didn't make a third time. In advance of the scheduled time, she said: "This scheduling is just creating an expectation that we are going to have sex". I didn't try again. Ah, for dumb!! "Scheduling sex creates an expectation for sex!" Hello? That's the purpose of the scheduling! What she's not getting is that scheduling, having that expectation for sex means that she doesn't have to spend the rest of her time AVOIDING sex, because of no expectations. Sheesh! If scheduling sex creates the expectation of sex and is therefore a bad thing, consider the sexual component of the relationship dead. As painful as that may be, you will be doing yourself a favor. She is telling you she does not want to fuck you. What more do you need to see the hopelessness of the situation?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 15:19:52 GMT -5
Q: For a refuser, what's the difference between scheduling sex and scheduling a root canal?
A: They will keep the appointment for the root canal.
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Post by tirefire on Dec 7, 2017 17:16:22 GMT -5
Q: For a refuser, what's the difference between scheduling sex and scheduling a root canal? A: They will keep the appointment for the root canal. Laugh or cry.
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Post by Apocrypha on Dec 7, 2017 17:40:34 GMT -5
Apocrypha I don't agree. Spouses can be clueless, or they can be in denial. They can truly think they love their partners and that there is nothing wrong. And too often the partners cannot convey their pain and frustration in a way that the refuser can even hear, let alone understand. My advice was a little oversimple - some refusers might regard tears as an attack, as my W often does, while calm talking might make others think that the problem can't be THAT bad if the person shows no emotion. People have lots of defense mechanisms that go very deep before they can realize that they are the source of the partner's frustration. But IF the refused knows how to get the message of real pain across in a way that the refuser can understand, and IF the refuser really does love the refused, then the refuser would naturally want to change. If the refuser doesn't own the issue, after being made to understand (and preferably to repeat or restate it), then the problem is with the entire marriage, not just sex - there's too little trust, communication, empathy and the rest of the things that are needed for a good relationship. Ok, they can be all those things, but if they desire their willing partner, they will likely have sex with them. Getting a "message of real pain" across might remind their partner that the absence of sexual intimacy is missed, but it doesn't actually create desire. Desire is the wellspring of a sustainable solution over time. And yes, if one's idea of marriage includes sexual intimacy, then a lack of desire for one's partner that results in a celibate relationship is a problem.
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Post by jim44444 on Dec 7, 2017 20:35:20 GMT -5
There are couples for whom that approach (scheduling) definitely works. Unsurprisingly, we tend not to hear about those couples on this site- they never make it here because they don't actually have a problem of any significance. I tried scheduling sex with my wife. The first time it was ok. The second time she asked me to massage her shoulders for about 1/2 hour, then, after some reluctance on her part, we did it. We didn't make a third time. In advance of the scheduled time, she said: "This scheduling is just creating an expectation that we are going to have sex". I didn't try again. The scheduling will only work for a couple if they both have a desire for sex. The schedule prevents other facets of their life from precluding the sexual aspect of the union.
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Post by elkclan2 on Dec 8, 2017 0:28:38 GMT -5
I think there are some women who don't have a lot of spontaneous desire, but still have responsive desire - and scheduling might work for them. I have read articles about women who say they don't FEEL like having sex, but commit to doing it anyway and then get into it. Scheduling might work there. Personally, I have a lot of spontaneous desire as well as responsive desire and I hate schedules so not sure if scheduling would really work for me, but then again, I'm not in a low sex relationship now.
Scheduling didn't work for me in my SM partly because, well, I hate schedules. But my ex wouldn't agree to anything in advance (let's see how I feel) so I'm sure he wouldn't have agreed to sex. He'd have agreed to think about possibly having sex. He could forestall scheduling by saying that he was too busy during term time (semester) so best not to think about having sex at all til it was over as he viewed sex as a leisure activity and he was too busy for even the hobbies he liked. (So like an idiot I waited til Christmas break after he'd said that, then I waited, and waited, and waited...and still no sex)
My current partner - 10 times busier than my ex - is also an academic and he has plenty of time for sex during term time, except for Tuesday mornings when he leaves the house ridiculous early to teach. When I told him about the term time thing he thought that was the funniest thing ever and helped me see the ridiculous side of it, too. On Tuesdays when he leaves the house early we sometimes laugh about it. Sometimes we even have sex on Tuesday mornings...but not often!
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