|
Post by choosinghappy on Nov 30, 2017 4:23:58 GMT -5
An acquaintance of mine lost her battle with cancer yesterday. She was only 44 and had school aged children. It is very sad.
But beyond that specifically, it made me think about if I or my H were to get sick. That could happen at any time, you never know what’s on the horizon. And I realized if I were sick, I’d want my H there and to be the one caring for me. And vice versa: if he were sick I’d want to be there and care for him too. It’s no secret there is still a lot of love in our marriage...
To those who have divorced or are in the process: How do/would you feel about this situation? Do you no longer feel this way about your Ex/STBX? Or do you still, but have decided your sexual and intimacy needs are more important/pressing?
|
|
|
Post by ironhamster on Nov 30, 2017 4:47:42 GMT -5
My proceedings are still four years out by my plans. My stbx is still the mother of my children, and as intolerable as our relationship is, we still love each other. If she got sick, I would help as much as I could. As for my sexual needs, my clock is ticking and I have been cheated out of too much of my sex life already. It is more important than her while she is healthy and vibrant, and would be no less important if she was ill.
Depending on how sick I was, I have no intention of going through that so what she does is moot.
|
|
|
Post by baza on Nov 30, 2017 5:08:31 GMT -5
I think the first thing to have a - really objective - look at is "Would your spouse actually be there for you ?"
After all, your spouse has been indifferent to your emotional needs in the sexual aspect of your deal. On what basis do you figure that your spouse would not be indifferent to your emotional needs in the illness aspect of your deal ?
But, the cards fall in unpredictable fashion. In my deal (I got out in Oct 2009) I went and stayed with her to help out a couple of times between 2011 and 2015 (additional to my regular visits to see our kids) I didn't still need to be married to her for that.
Then, in 2015 she died very suddenly
Anyway, I did help her in this way - after we split. I'd imagine I would have helped her still - if necessary - had she not cashed in her chips. And I've supported my kids (now adults) at all times pre and post my ex's departure.
My take on the issue is that you do not need to be married to someone to be a person of support to them.
|
|
tsm
Junior Member
Posts: 44
|
Post by tsm on Nov 30, 2017 6:27:49 GMT -5
I'm in the process of separation right now. My wife is trying to buy a house but it will be a cheaper one that needs some work. I'm pretty handy at renovation work and I'll be travelling to visit my daughter anyway, so I'll be helping her out with that while I'm there. It makes a more pleasant place to visit and makes a nicer home for my daughter to live in so I don't mind. I also think we will be much better friends when we aren't trying to be together.
Splitting up doesn't need to mean hating each other.
|
|
|
Post by h on Nov 30, 2017 6:27:52 GMT -5
I have thought about that often. I HAVE taken care of my W through serious illness. If I ended up with a cancer diagnosis, I have thought many times that treatment wouldn't be worth it. I would just ride it out to an early finish and make my W take care of me till the end out of spite. I'm not sure how I feel now. I haven't reevaluated that possibility in a long time.
|
|
tori
Junior Member
Posts: 89
Age Range: 41-45
|
Post by tori on Nov 30, 2017 6:34:20 GMT -5
I’m separated from my H and to answer the question...No, I wouldn’t want him to look after me. I believe my H to be a narcissist/sociopath. No empathy or genuine concern would ever be shown to me. I think he’d be counting the days til he can deposit my life insurance check. I just shuttered...scary thought right there. As far as me caring for him, I suppose I would seeing as though I’m a decent human being, compassionate and kind. Which I believe made me a prime target to the predator I married.
|
|
|
Post by M2G on Nov 30, 2017 7:11:38 GMT -5
Very sorry for your loss choosinghappyI don't think I could ever fall out of love with my W. I've tried. I believe she feels the same way or we would have split up years ago. I'm coming to grips with the reality that we will not be making love in the near future, and that sex will never be like it was, for many reasons. We are too busy trying to fix our own flaws, and each helping the other with the same. I will be there for her, no question, whatever the outcome may be. As was said above: there is no need to hate, even if things don't work out between us.
|
|
|
Post by northstarmom on Nov 30, 2017 7:31:43 GMT -5
“An acquaintance of mine lost her battle with cancer yesterday. She was only 44 and had school aged children. It is very sad.
But beyond that specifically, it made me think about if I or my H were to get sick. That could happen at any time, you never know what’s on the horizon. And I realized if I were sick, I’d want my H there and to be the one caring for me. And vice versa: if he were sick I’d want to be there and care for him too. “
My mother remained in a sm that also was loveless and verbally abuse I’ve. She did that because she didn’t want to become the object of gossip if she divorced. When she was in her 60s, my father had a series of strokes. He became mute, partially paralyzed and incintinent. Mom spent years caring for him til he died. By the time that happened, she just wished for death to end her miserable life.
I vowed that I would never cling to a rotten marriage like she did and end up spending my golden years taking care of a person I didn’t care about.
My refuser ex was so self centered that when I ended up in the hospital and was diagnosed with serious depression, he engaged my doctor in a conversation about the doctor’s accent. My husband expressed no concern about me.
I knew from then on that if I became physically ill, I would not want my husband to be my caregiver or medical surrogate.
After we got divorced, he got kidney cancer. I was sorry for him and I encouraged our adult sons to fly halfway around the world to where my ex had retired. I was glad, however, that taking care of him was no longer my responsibility.
When post sm lover almost died last year due to a ruptured colon, I lovingly took care of him and would have continued even if he had been left impotent and permanently infirm.
|
|
|
Post by choosinghappy on Nov 30, 2017 8:43:22 GMT -5
I think the first thing to have a - really objective - look at is "Would your spouse actually be there for you ?" After all, your spouse has been indifferent to your emotional needs in the sexual aspect of your deal. On what basis do you figure that your spouse would not be indifferent to your emotional needs in the illness aspect of your deal ? ....... My take on the issue is that you do not need to be married to someone to be a person of support to them. baza Yes, my spouse would actually be there for me. Whenever I am ill he is very attentive and picks up all the slack around the house and with our son and also takes care of me as much as he can without a complaint even while everything is on his shoulders. And when our son is sick (which happens often) and I have to be with him 24/7, H makes sure to care for me while I care for our son, ensuring I am eating and drinking enough etc. while all my focus is on our kid. He is very good with practical things and attentive in that way. As far as my "emotional needs" I would not expect any more than he already gives which is very little. I think he gives what he is capable of giving. I am hopeful therapy will enable him to be capable of giving more emotionally. I don't know yet if that will be the case or not. In the meantime, he gives everything he can in every other possible way he is able. He shows me he loves me through tokens of love and acts of service. Unfortunately, those two "love languages" rank last on my list of the ways I receive love (my first being touch). So it is a mismatch for sure. But it doesn't mean we don't still love each other and support one another. I agree you don't need to be married to someone to be a person of support to them. However, I think about how I cared for him through 2 prior back surgeries. If he had to go through that again (and it's looking like he may within the next year or so), I would do it again and would want to fully be there for him. I don't see how I could do that kind of 24 hour care for weeks if we were divorced, maybe I'd be in a new relationship etc. It's just not what I want. And selfishly, I NEED his help when our son is sick. I can't do it alone. We would HAVE to have an amicable split if that were to happen because caring for our son takes two people. We have to have that partnership and I don't feel I can chance losing that. My needs in this way are just simply greater than my needs for emotional and sexual intimacy with him.
|
|
|
Post by h on Nov 30, 2017 9:03:26 GMT -5
I think the first thing to have a - really objective - look at is "Would your spouse actually be there for you ?" After all, your spouse has been indifferent to your emotional needs in the sexual aspect of your deal. On what basis do you figure that your spouse would not be indifferent to your emotional needs in the illness aspect of your deal ? ....... My take on the issue is that you do not need to be married to someone to be a person of support to them. baza Yes, my spouse would actually be there for me. Whenever I am ill he is very attentive and picks up all the slack around the house and with our son and also takes care of me as much as he can without a complaint even while everything is on his shoulders. And when our son is sick (which happens often) and I have to be with him 24/7, H makes sure to care for me while I care for our son, ensuring I am eating and drinking enough etc. while all my focus is on our kid. He is very good with practical things and attentive in that way. As far as my "emotional needs" I would not expect any more than he already gives which is very little. I think he gives what he is capable of giving. I am hopeful therapy will enable him to be capable of giving more emotionally. I don't know yet if that will be the case or not. In the meantime, he gives everything he can in every other possible way he is able. He shows me he loves me through tokens of love and acts of service. Unfortunately, those two "love languages" rank last on my list of the ways I receive love (my first being touch). So it is a mismatch for sure. But it doesn't mean we don't still love each other and support one another. I agree you don't need to be married to someone to be a person of support to them. However, I think about how I cared for him through 2 prior back surgeries. If he had to go through that again (and it's looking like he may within the next year or so), I would do it again and would want to fully be there for him. I don't see how I could do that kind of 24 hour care for weeks if we were divorced, maybe I'd be in a new relationship etc. It's just not what I want. And selfishly, I NEED his help when our son is sick. I can't do it alone. We would HAVE to have an amicable split if that were to happen because caring for our son takes two people. We have to have that partnership and I don't feel I can chance losing that. My needs in this way are just simply greater than my needs for emotional and sexual intimacy with him. It seems as though you are really at peace with your decision for now. I can appreciate that and you have my utmost respect. I'm still struggling with my own decisions and am not satisfied with anything yet. I envy your self awareness.
|
|
|
Post by worksforme2 on Nov 30, 2017 9:18:06 GMT -5
It does seem like you have made peace with your status in the marriage of essentially living as 2 people who care for each other on a # of planes, but are unlikely to share a sexual element within the relationship. I can understand and respect that. You do what you need to do and what works for you. I would like to think I would be there for my X. About 6 months ago she had a kidney stone. I took her to the hospital, stayed through her time there and continued to care for her as need when she returned to her home. I don't know if she would take that much time for me, but I would like to think she would.
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Nov 30, 2017 9:48:50 GMT -5
I’m separated from my H and to answer the question...No, I wouldn’t want him to look after me. I believe my H to be a narcissist/sociopath. No empathy or genuine concern would ever be shown to me. I think he’d be counting the days til he can deposit my life insurance check. I just shuttered...scary thought right there. As far as me caring for him, I suppose I would seeing as though I’m a decent human being, compassionate and kind. Which I believe made me a prime target to the predator I married. There is a positive side to this. You offer a detached relationship with your ex as you move forward with other men. I will be offering the same to other women.. Like yourself,and others, my W behavior to my near death experience, and her treatment of her father's ailing health makes it crystal clear that I am making the right choice. Especially with my W's detached attitude towards others. The selfishness of her behavior becomes clearer every day. Being there for my STBX in the future for health issues? Perhaps for the benefit of the children. (more than I would want to do.I am going for as much detachment as possible) It's going to be quite a mind game trying to decipher the emotions/compassion/sympathy/caring/understanding you would have for someone you spent decades of your life with, especially when you can have the same feelings towards a complete stranger. There's a lot of teaching, training, experience, religion,morals, and ethics that have been instilled in us for our entire lives. My guess is it will take even more trial, error, and counselling. It goes back to boundaries and "healing thyself".
|
|
|
Post by choosinghappy on Nov 30, 2017 13:35:08 GMT -5
It seems as though you are really at peace with your decision for now. I can appreciate that and you have my utmost respect. I'm still struggling with my own decisions and am not satisfied with anything yet. I envy your self awareness. "For now" being the key phrase here. I realize it may change. Maybe it's because we've only been together 10 years so it hasn't fully ripped me down yet, heh (only, not joking). And I don't know if I'm a peace with it or not. It's hard to truly feel at peace with something you're unhappy with. But for right now I feel it is the best decision.
|
|
|
Post by ballofconfusion on Nov 30, 2017 14:25:39 GMT -5
In response to your initial question, lonelywifey, part of the reason I left my husband when I did was due to the fear that he might get very sick while we were still married and I would feel responsible for staying and caring for him. He has been a heavy smoker since his teens and his mom (his abuser) died of lung cancer several years ago in her early 60's. I would imagine the same fate will greet him someday. I begged him to stop over the years and he even agreed to stop before our wedding as I didn't want to marry a smoker. He lied about that (among other things) and I caught him smoking on our honeymoon. He wouldn't, of course touch me, but he could not get ENOUGH of his cigarettes.
I think that when you do not love someone, or, more importantly, when you have fallen out of love and that is combined with the effects of a SM (25 years for me) the idea of caring for that person throughout a serious illness sounds far worse than simply staying in the marriage itself. I know that I could not do it for my soon to be ex husband. That may make me sound like an awful person, but it is the truth. I left when I did partly to ensure I was never placed in that situation with him. The fact that he is no longer my responsibility in this manner is a huge weight off of me. I spent many long nights with him over the years, caring for him while he was suffering from various bronchial illnesses and each one angered me - for obvious reasons. I was repelled by him. I felt no compassion. Honestly, it shames me a bit to say that I felt less compassion for him than I would a complete stranger. It was incredibly difficult to summon the emotional reserves of tenderness that should be present when caring for someone you love. This also told me, definitively, that I most certainly did not love him.
Contrast that with my relationship with shamwow. Were he to become sick (seriously so - infirm and impotent as northstarmom put it) I would be unable to STOP myself from caring for him with endless reserves of tenderness, compassion, and love. I would never leave his side. I would never want to do so. The very thought makes me want to cry. In fact, far from leaving, it would be my joy to care for him both physically and emotionally. Perhaps this is a good, simple litmus test for how we feel about someone (spouse or not). Imagine them completely incapacitated in some permanent way. What is your response to this notion? What does your gut tell you? I would wager that if you truly love someone you would not only care for them under these circumstances, but would also consider it a privilege. That is love. It is self gift.
Now, you may love this person and want to care for them and the marriage may still not be healthy. In that case, you can choose to leave (as baza did) and still help and care for this person without the encumbrance of marriage (as baza mentioned). In my case, I do not love my soon to be ex husband. My answer is simple. I will not care for him if he becomes sick at some point in the future and I left to avoid being sucked into doing so within the context of marriage.
From your words, lonelywifey, you still have much love for your husband. I'm sorry for your friend's death and for the suffering you are enduring in your marriage. However, you do not seem to be ready to leave now - and you may never be ready to or want to leave. You seem to wish to care for him (and him for you) in the event of serious illness and you seem to wish for that within the context of your marriage. That is ok. As my eighteen year old son is fond of telling me: "You do YOU." In other words, be true to yourself. Don't look sideways at what others are doing (not even on this forum). You are here for support for whatever path you choose.
I wish I had shared your introspection when I was only ten years into my marriage, as I would have left much sooner. My path is not yours. However, what you are doing for yourself here is discerning what is best for you (at least for now). Your question, and your own answer to it, with regard to a potentially serious illness seem to indicate to me that you have decided your path for the time being - and that is all that matters.
Hugs.
Quick edit - as to whether he would care for me. He never did. He left me alone when I was sick and I still cared for the house and the kids. I have never had someone truly care for me when I was ill. I don't even know what that would feel like.
|
|
|
Post by dinnaken on Nov 30, 2017 14:54:56 GMT -5
Hi choosinghappyI'm sorry to hear of the death of your friend. Some background to what I say. I am separated. I do not miss my wife. Whatever love there was in our marriage ended very early on. Six months into our marriage my wife did receive a cancer diagnosis. I did what I could to look after her but that was nothing next to the surgical team and nursing staff who were outstanding. I dutifully cared for her. She is a human being, she has a life which was threatened, what else could I do? I had considered the point you raise, as a kind of thought experiment, and - no - I would not wish her to nurse me or be with me as I died. Neither would I wish her to conduct the burial service (which she is qualified to do). I have no anger or malice towards her. That part of my life is over, that is all. If she were dying and requested my presence, of course I would visit her. I would not wish her with me as I died. If I read your original post correctly you seem to be asking us which was more important to us - staying with someone (potentially) for decades because one day they will die or leave them to seek out a happy sexual/intimate relationship. We will all of us one day die; some of us (like me) sooner than others. We come this way once.
|
|