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Post by northstarmom on Nov 28, 2017 7:34:19 GMT -5
“This is the part that gets me:
"I’ve told him that even though I don’t want to have sex, it doesn’t bother me to have it sometimes if it makes him happy."””
Of course she can’t understand why her boyfriend is ending the relationship. Expecting her to understand why her offer isn’t enough is like expecting a blind person to understand the beauty of rainbows. She doesn’t know what she is missing. Thus, she doesn’t understand what her boyfriend would miss if love by engaging in sex with a woman who has no sexual interest. She will never be able to understand that.
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Post by ironhamster on Nov 28, 2017 7:45:51 GMT -5
I wonder how the girlfriend would feel about an open relationship. I ask that with a little facetiousnes, because I see very few asexual partners ok with sex outside the relationship. I think the logic is that if they do not want it the other partner should not have it either. Urgh. Which of course is completely illogical... It really is. I think it was Baza that first pointed out to me that if sex is not important in a relationship then sex is not important outside a relationship. That is logical. The girl's worldview is painfully obvious. She might have an honest grasp of what she is, but has no fucking idea what her boyfriend's needs are. There really is no understanding, and no way to resolve the conflict other than moving on. Assume she knew of her boyfriend's need for sex to connect, and her desire to keep him, do you think she will be honest with her NEXT boyfriend? I don't. I wish I could dig up my wife's ex boyfriends on social media and see what she told them back then.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 28, 2017 8:07:25 GMT -5
“Assume she knew of her boyfriend's need for sex to connect, and her desire to keep him, do you think she will be honest with her NEXT boyfriend”
She might have the good sense to search for a boyfriend who also is asexual. I’m sure it’s possible to do that online.
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Post by ironhamster on Nov 28, 2017 8:18:12 GMT -5
“Assume she knew of her boyfriend's need for sex to connect, and her desire to keep him, do you think she will be honest with her NEXT boyfriend” She might have the good sense to search for a boyfriend who also is asexual. I’m sure it’s possible to do that online. That is one nice thing about the internet. It is easier to find people with specific quirks than it was back when I was dating. I hope that is how it plays out.
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Post by shamwow on Nov 28, 2017 11:19:25 GMT -5
“Assume she knew of her boyfriend's need for sex to connect, and her desire to keep him, do you think she will be honest with her NEXT boyfriend” She might have the good sense to search for a boyfriend who also is asexual. I’m sure it’s possible to do that online. I don't hate my ex-wife. I don't wish her misery and suffering. I hope that she finds somebody someday that will make her happy and she can make happy. That person will almost assuredly be asexual, have a low drive, or be incapable of a healthy loving sexual relationship. That guy sure as hell ain't me.
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Post by shamwow on Nov 28, 2017 11:35:57 GMT -5
Which of course is completely illogical... It really is. I think it was Baza that first pointed out to me that if sex is not important in a relationship then sex is not important outside a relationship. That is logical. The girl's worldview is painfully obvious. She might have an honest grasp of what she is, but has no fucking idea what her boyfriend's needs are. There really is no understanding, and no way to resolve the conflict other than moving on. Assume she knew of her boyfriend's need for sex to connect, and her desire to keep him, do you think she will be honest with her NEXT boyfriend? I don't. I wish I could dig up my wife's ex boyfriends on social media and see what she told them back then. Perhaps she does have an honest grasp of what she is. And I agree that she has no idea what her boyfriend's needs are. I would take it a step further, though, and suggest that she doesn't care what her boyfriend's needs are. Caring about your partner is kind of important. So it seems to me like she isn't ready for any kind of relationship. Sexual or asexual.
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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 28, 2017 11:40:48 GMT -5
I agree northstarmom that her self awareness is better than the alternative. But I hope she comes to terms with the stark judgment in her voice about sex. She really does devalue it and looks down on him as shallow that he is interested in it. I am also disturbed by her insistence that providing her BF with an outlet for an orgasm in a begrudging and possibly traumatized hole sometimes is "compromise". I am glad Prudence was able to articulate it well. I would have been harder on her, I think. I wonder about the impact of early messages of sex we receive as girls. I can remember the stark warning from friends and adults "he just wants to get in your pants" or "he just wants sex." With the commonplace nature of sexual assault and date rape I think it is necessary to give girls strong boundaries against the sometimes blind sex drive of teenage boys. However, I also think young girls get a message that "if he values you he won't push you for sex." They associate being approached sexually with something shallow, something that lessens their worth. Not a fully formed thought but something to look at. I'm going to take your thought and expand it some more. For some guys approaching a woman sexually -after weeks/months of courting/dating- is the highest compliment they can bestow upon a woman! They are making themselves vulnerable towards rejection by being honest and giving, hoping to receive in return. sadly that's looked upon as being shallow and lessons their worth. Too many woman/females have had the saying,' all they wan't is sex' pounded into their brain. Just watch today's news.
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Post by DryCreek on Nov 28, 2017 12:28:25 GMT -5
If we are to view asexuality like an orientation, the parallel seems pretty clear to me... if she had claimed to be lesbian (not bi) but agreed to monogamous hetero sex as a compromise, that's a recipe for a bad experience on both sides.
For asexuals, I think it goes a layer deeper. At least in W's case, "they don't know what they don't know". They see sex as just an activity, like adding kale salad to your diet, which might be unpleasant but beneficial.
They have no concept of the intimacy and bonding and emotional experience it is for a sexful person. So, of course, in their eyes why can't he be happy with a compromise?
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 28, 2017 12:38:49 GMT -5
“For some guys approaching a woman sexually -after weeks/months of courting/dating- is the highest compliment they can bestow upon a woman! They are making themselves vulnerable towards rejection by being honest and giving, hoping to receive in return.”
Mature adult women who enjoy sex probably wouldn’t hang around with a guy who took months to make a pass. A guy who thought he was complementing me by waiting so long wouldn’t be the guy for me. I think sex is normal and natural if one is an adult in a romance. I also wouldn’t want to get stuck with a low libido man or a guy who thought that women who enjoy sex are unworthy of his love.
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Post by shamwow on Nov 28, 2017 12:45:33 GMT -5
If we are to view asexuality like an orientation, the parallel seems pretty clear to me... if she had claimed to be lesbian (not bi) but agreed to monogamous hetero sex as a compromise, that's a recipe for a bad experience on both sides. For asexuals, I think it goes a layer deeper. At least in W's case, "they don't know what they don't know". They see sex as just an activity, like adding kale salad to your diet, which might be unpleasant but beneficial. They have no concept of the intimacy and bonding and emotional experience it is for a sexful person. So, of course, in their eyes why can't he be happy with a compromise? Respectfully, I disagree. There are many ways to make a salad. Adding kale is one way to prepare it, but adding or removing it would not be considered "odd". It is still a salad. A typical boyfriend / girlfriend relationship has the expectation of intimacy. Even if actual sex is restricted by religious teachings, it is expected that a boyfriend / girlfriend relationship has some element of sexual desire / tension. In a typical secular relationship, most people would assume that the boyfriend and girlfriend are intimate with each other on a regular basis. In fact, it is usually assumed that a boyfriend / girlfriend have MORE sex than if they were married. A non-sexual boyfriend / girlfriend relationship would be more like removing the LETTUCE from the salad and still calling it salad. There are, of course, friendships involving members of the opposite sex. These are platonic friendships and are defined by the fact that he isn't interested in her pussy and she isn't interested in his cock. For someone who is asexual, this is the appropriate type of relationship involving the opposite sex. Nothing wrong with it, and it can be quite satisfying to both parties. In fact, most people have many of these throughout their lives. But a platonic relationship is NOT a boyfriend / girlfriend relationship, and anyone old enough to have such a relationship sure as hell knows the difference. I find her incredulity that her boyfriend wants to break up because he wants sex to be, well, incredulous. The guy probably just likes lettuce in his salad.
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Post by shamwow on Nov 28, 2017 12:54:20 GMT -5
I keep thinking that something will change and we will return to what we once had. Foolish self-delusion. Does anyone wonder if "what we once had" was always a delusion? Such a thought never occurred to me until years of SM hell. It seemed so damn real to me at the time, but now I strongly suspect "what we once had" was only in my head and not in her heart. 2 things come to mind: 1. I once asked her if she wouldn't like to go back to the way we were when we first got together. Her response was she just wanted to move on. 2. In the heat of an argument once, she said behind tears: "I'm sorry for what I did to you back then." I think I articulated I didn't understand what the hell she was referring to, but she did not elaborate. I now suspect this was referring to the bait and switch, but she has never clarified this. My god, this was the happiest time of my life and she's apologizing for it. The only thing that makes sense is that I was deceived. Strange...the "bait" time was the happiest in my life too...until I got out of the "switch" 20 years later. Now, I find myself in the new happiest time of my life. Perspective is a funny thing, isn't it?
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 28, 2017 13:00:05 GMT -5
“There are, of course, friendships involving members of the opposite sex. These are platonic friendships and are defined by the fact that he isn't interested in her pussy and she isn't interested in his cock. For someone who is asexual, this is the appropriate type of relationship involving the opposite sex. Nothing wrong with it, and it can be quite satisfying to both parties. In fact, most people have many of these throughout their lives. But a platonic relationship is NOT a boyfriend / girlfriend relationship, and anyone old enough to have such a relationship sure as hell knows the difference.”
Asexuals could be in wonderful relationships that meet their needs and their partner’s needs if their partner also is asexual.
Keep in mind that not all salads include lettuce. Some salads contain only fruit....
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 28, 2017 13:01:51 GMT -5
“There are, of course, friendships involving members of the opposite sex. These are platonic friendships and are defined by the fact that he isn't interested in her pussy and she isn't interested in his cock. For someone who is asexual, this is the appropriate type of relationship involving the opposite sex. Nothing wrong with it, and it can be quite satisfying to both parties. In fact, most people have many of these throughout their lives. But a platonic relationship is NOT a boyfriend / girlfriend relationship, and anyone old enough to have such a relationship sure as hell knows the difference.”
Asexuals could be in wonderful relationships that meet their needs and their partner’s needs if their partner also is asexual.
Keep in mind that not all salads include lettuce. Some salads contain only fruit....
Also think about what prepubescent kids consider romances. They may crush on other kids but certainly don’t want to have sec. Sr best, they may want to hold hands. Yet, they are experiencing romantic love as best they can.
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Post by shamwow on Nov 28, 2017 13:09:34 GMT -5
“There are, of course, friendships involving members of the opposite sex. These are platonic friendships and are defined by the fact that he isn't interested in her pussy and she isn't interested in his cock. For someone who is asexual, this is the appropriate type of relationship involving the opposite sex. Nothing wrong with it, and it can be quite satisfying to both parties. In fact, most people have many of these throughout their lives. But a platonic relationship is NOT a boyfriend / girlfriend relationship, and anyone old enough to have such a relationship sure as hell knows the difference.” Asexuals could be in wonderful relationships that meet their needs and their partner’s needs if their partner also is asexual. Keep in mind that not all salads include lettuce. Some salads contain only fruit.... Also think about what prepubescent kids consider romances. They may crush on other kids but certainly don’t want to have sec. Sr best, they may want to hold hands. Yet, they are experiencing romantic love as best they can. Not sure you'd add kale to a fruit salad
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Post by DryCreek on Nov 28, 2017 13:09:57 GMT -5
shamwow, perhaps my point wasn't clear... To an asexual, adding sex to the relationship is like changing one's diet in an unpleasant but necessary way. They might do it, but that doesn't mean they'll like it. The fact that she's incredulous to her boyfriend's refusal of this arrangement just underscores the fact that she doesn't grasp sex as anything more meaningful than an activity on the to-do list. And yes, I have plenty of female friends, but I definitely expect that the one with whom I'm sharing a bed, a name, and finances, I'm also having sex with.
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