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Post by ironhamster on Nov 29, 2017 6:03:56 GMT -5
M2G , you are a good and patient man. I don't know if you can fix what is wrong with her, but at least you can say that you helped her make some progress. My wife went through a counseling program our first year of marriage. I was very patient with that when I should have been filing for an annulment. It took a bit over a year before we consummated the marriage. If she came up with a reason at this point, after all this time, I would be just as all out of proverbial fucks to give as she was out of real ones for all that time. TY - to be honest I'm ready to leave, I just don't want to be the one who leaves. Sometimes I wish I could fall out of love with her, but it just isn't happening. I think that is one problem most of us have. We do love our spouses. In my case, the accumulated pain is high enough that I have to make changes. Big ones. I think my wife loves me, but, not the way she should. Only the way she wants. There is nothing loving about forcing celibacy on your partner. The love that I think of love also has some introspection. My wife is not accepting any responsibility for the fact that she has never lived up to her end of the sexual bargain. I should add, I do not think it is productive to assign blame. When she brings up a reason she was never in the mood, I have calmer results from saying, "And that is another example of why we are not compatible," than pointing out that every time that issue was under control there was another reason for avoidance. Another nice line for the discussion has been, "that does not change the fact that for the last twenty-four years you have not wanted to fuck me."
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Post by M2G on Nov 29, 2017 6:08:50 GMT -5
Yes I think you're right ironhamsterIf we all fell out of love due to SM, everyone would just leave and this site or EP would never have been born. So I guess I'm glad in a way, to have had the opportunity to take part in these discussions with you and all of the other highly intelligent and caring people that frequent this forum.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 29, 2017 7:23:44 GMT -5
“I'm interested in progress - like holding hands or more then 3-4 seconds would be nice.”
If it’s a struggle for your wife to participate in such slight intimacy, do you really think she ever will be able to participate in mutually fulfilling passionate intercourse?
Holding hands is an easy and ordinary thing to do on s first date with a virtual stranger.
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Post by shamwow on Nov 29, 2017 14:20:47 GMT -5
“I'm interested in progress - like holding hands or more then 3-4 seconds would be nice.” If it’s a struggle for your wife to participate in such slight intimacy, do you really think she ever will be able to participate in mutually fulfilling passionate intercourse? Holding hands is an easy and ordinary thing to do on s first date with a virtual stranger. Some things are actually easier with a stranger. You're working on a blank slate. Working with an estranged spouse has anger, fear, and history that can't be ignored.
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Post by M2G on Nov 30, 2017 6:49:39 GMT -5
“I'm interested in progress - like holding hands or more then 3-4 seconds would be nice.” If it’s a struggle for your wife to participate in such slight intimacy, do you really think she ever will be able to participate in mutually fulfilling passionate intercourse? Holding hands is an easy and ordinary thing to do on s first date with a virtual stranger. Some things are actually easier with a stranger. You're working on a blank slate. Working with an estranged spouse has anger, fear, and history that can't be ignored. True - but I'm in a position of removing the plank from my own eye, before I criticize the mote in hers - I was a contributing factor to her current state, as she is to mine. The increased civility around here helps a lot. The lack of fighting is replaced with time to get to know each other again. Honestly, up until maybe a year ago, we only really knew each other as the 15 - 16 year old kids that we were when we met back in 1980, and the beasts we became over the years. As well, she's facing some serious problems: Anxiety, cPTSD, panic attacks and inability to trust stemming from childhood (and other including abandonment as I found out a couple weeks ago). Same as me, but my issues are not so dire and I wasn't sexually assaulted by my (father figure) when I was in my 30's. We used to cover up our issues with substance abuse, sex - lots of sex, then more sex. Now that we're in this SM, that outlet is gone and the ghosts are making themselves known. Her ability to trust me is all but gone, and its going to take a lot of time to get that back, if its even possible. She doesn't feel safe anymore and confessed to me a couple days ago that the drinking is the only way she can get to sleep. So, what kind of dickhead would I be, to just leave because the work is too hard? What kind of person runs away from their spouse when problems arise, especially when said spouse was a contributing factor? I don't want to be that guy. I won't be that guy - especially in light of the abandonment issues. In the last couple of months a strange reversal has taken place in me. Instead of dreading coming home, home with my W if the ONLY place I achieve any emotional peace. When I'm away from her I start turning into that emotional super-ball in the paint shaker that I alluded to at the beginning of the thread. This is not healthy. Codependency? Another new problem for me to work on along with my narcissistic and borderline tendencies. Possibly the work on those is throwing me sideways - mentally trying to re-bandage the wounds that I'm re-opening. This week, I started on an exercise to not be judgmental when driving, listening to or reading the news, thinking about things in my past, etc. So far a fail but getting closer. Yesterday it was Trump and the Pocahontas comment
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Post by M2G on Dec 1, 2017 12:48:42 GMT -5
..Instead of dreading coming home, home with my W if the ONLY place I achieve any emotional peace. When I'm away from her I start turning into that emotional super-ball in the paint shaker that I alluded to at the beginning of the thread. This is not healthy.. Decision: I can't let my happiness or state of mind be controlled by another. I need to take ownership of my mood and state of mind. The sourpuss thing is just indulging in self pity, and emotional damage on top of the SM that I'm doing to myself. I will keep telling myself that until I believe it.
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Post by ironhamster on Dec 1, 2017 22:59:10 GMT -5
..Instead of dreading coming home, home with my W if the ONLY place I achieve any emotional peace. When I'm away from her I start turning into that emotional super-ball in the paint shaker that I alluded to at the beginning of the thread. This is not healthy.. Decision: I can't let my happiness or state of mind be controlled by another. I need to take ownership of my mood and state of mind. The sourpuss thing is just indulging in self pity, and emotional damage on top of the SM that I'm doing to myself. I will keep telling myself that until I believe it. Believe it. One of the things I have told my W is that I cannot keep living like this. She is having a really hard time accepting our new reality, but I can no longer accept the old one. Slow immersion.
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Post by M2G on Dec 1, 2017 23:48:50 GMT -5
Decision: I can't let my happiness or state of mind be controlled by another. I need to take ownership of my mood and state of mind. The sourpuss thing is just indulging in self pity, and emotional damage on top of the SM that I'm doing to myself. I will keep telling myself that until I believe it. Believe it. One of the things I have told my W is that I cannot keep living like this. She is having a really hard time accepting our new reality, but I can no longer accept the old one. Slow immersion. TY my friend. ..And if our respective W's have a hard time accept the new reality, they have only themselves to blame. Nary a fucking thing we can do about it (except to duck the DARVO). (Hey! "Ducking the DARVO" would be a great thread! But I'm just too tired tonight)
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Post by M2G on Dec 2, 2017 8:16:47 GMT -5
Another development.
Yesterday while driving home I got a call from my former employer: Since I left 2 replacements have crashed & burned. Long story short: they want me back.
Offered Job: Larger salary, with commission (this time), 401K, pay 50% of my health care, and I know the product and market like the back of my hand. Travel 50% of the year in the Northeast - basically Maine, Virginia, Kentucky and Michigan and all states within those corners. I plan to bargain with them to push it bigger: West to Illinois, and south to North Carolina.
The owner is a great guy that I very much respect. Travel to the office about 20 min each way.
Current Job: A similar market (I went to work for a client in May but my product knowledge is not all that as yet). Base pay is lower, no retirement plan, travel to work is about 80 min each way, commission is better but when I ran the projections, the promised overall earning is just not realistic because they don't have access to the most lucrative accounts: Law enforcement, first responders, and government (for reasons that would make this post much too long - suffice it to say: not in my control).
They offer Aflac (but I can now take that with me). I really like the owner, known him for over 10 years - great guy. I am home at the same time almost every day.
W is upset with me - says she just got used to me being home, now has to readjust for me not being home. Tells me to stop fucking around with her schedule.
On my end - getting the fuck out of the house every other week at this point is very attractive. Less time being around my W to torture myself over the damaged relationship that I really don't have much hope can be fixed, no matter how hard I try or how much healing of myself that I may achieve.
Having enough $$ to pay down debts without dancing on a razor-edge budget is also attractive.
What's not attractive, is trying (for the 3rd or 4th time) to bring back clients who left due to poor order fulfillment. I've been told that those issues have been fixed (and made a few calls yesterday to several of my former co-workers to verify) - but still: awkward!! (But I will figure that out.)
Allegedly they've put in place my final recommendations to run the sales team and everything is coming up roses. Oy. Is it true or are they just ass-kissing?
My reaction: Use my head this time instead of my heart, and take it - potentially losing a friend (current boss) but putting my families' financial interests first and giving my W and I some space.
Any thoughts?
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Post by northstarmom on Dec 2, 2017 8:25:15 GMT -5
Sounds like a great deal that you’d long regret turning down.
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Post by h on Dec 2, 2017 9:54:03 GMT -5
I'd jump on the new job. The time apart will be good for you and the money will make it easier to get out if you decide to leave her.
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Post by eternaloptimism on Dec 2, 2017 10:00:33 GMT -5
What h said. Take the job back. Physical and financial freedom. X
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Post by M2G on Dec 2, 2017 13:48:54 GMT -5
Thank you gentle people for the input - that's the way I was going. A hard conversation with my current friend/employer - but it can't be worse than my SM shithole. I will deal. itme - Relationships are indeed the core of this job, and the old relationships are much stronger. A lot of friends made with my customers over the years.
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 2, 2017 13:56:41 GMT -5
Plug it in to the Boundaries books you have been reading. You are setting boundaries for what is best for you. Weather your W complies or not is her problem. How you carry through with the consequences of her actions and attitude will continue to strengthen your own personal character and dignity.
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Post by northstarmom on Dec 2, 2017 14:10:35 GMT -5
Financial freedom is important. You don’t know what could happen that could cause you to need a higher income. Also, as one ages, good opportunities to get better paying jobs are increasingly hard to obtain. Seize the moment. If your customers are friends, they will remain friends later.
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