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Post by bballgirl on Nov 18, 2017 10:28:12 GMT -5
I am a strong woman too so I can relate to a lot of what you wrote. Here's the thing and your therapist may not know how ahead of the curve and self aware you are about yourself and your marriage. At the end of the day, and I know you know this: "it doesn't matter that he doesn't want sex with you". What really matters more is that it's not normal, it's his issues, and it does not have to be tolerated. In a relationship there are good parts and bad parts and it boils down to can we accept and live with the bad parts? Maybe we have ways to cope with the bad parts. What are the good parts of the relationship? If you said NONE then it's time to separate/ divorce. Some days are better than others. Do something nice for yourself and find your happiness. Hugs xoxo
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 10:40:57 GMT -5
JMX, You probably are done with this counselor and this purpose -- dealing with the marriage. But my experience is that there are another set of issues to work through if/when you are doing the divorce thing. It is so tough. I was worried about how tough it was going to be, and I underestimated it. BUT, others tell me and it appears from my perspective that I'm doing pretty well with it. It is way worse on some of the other guys I know that are going through it. I'm thankful for the counselor I see weekly these days. Once we work this out and things are more final, I'll start cutting back on him, but for now, I really look forward to my opportunities to talk to him. BTW: I canned the one I was meeting with before I filed for the divorce for something pretty similar to what you describe.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 10:57:05 GMT -5
I am a strong woman too so I can relate to a lot of what you wrote. Here's the thing and your therapist may not know how ahead of the curve and self aware you are about yourself and your marriage. At the end of the day, and I know you know this: "it doesn't matter that he doesn't want sex with you". What really matters more is that it's not normal, it's his issues, and it does not have to be tolerated. In a relationship there are good parts and bad parts and it boils down to can we accept and live with the bad parts? Maybe we have ways to cope with the bad parts. What are the good parts of the relationship? If you said NONE then it's time to separate/ divorce. Some days are better than others. Do something nice for yourself and find your happiness. Hugs xoxo BBG, you are brilliant. I keep saying this in other cases and my own. Oh, it is so easy to get side tracked with minutiae. But there is normally ONE Problem that needs to be addressed first. So much of this "Counseling" stuff is just bromides. Heck, I can tell someone "Communication is the secret to a great relationship". It's a bromide. Something folks say when they don't know what else to say. JMX , have you considered how you and your husband communicate? Maybe you should work on that! What about how you're dressing? Have you considered having date nights? KIDDING!!! I'm sorry. I shouldn't mock.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 11:03:02 GMT -5
And for the record, JMX, I know what you're referring to regarding "Submission" and strength. You're talking about vulnerability. And only the strongest can afford to be vulnerable. Weak folk need to keep all their parts well covered. If exposed and targeted, they'll fall apart. They'll be crushed. The strong folks can expose themselves and take the consequences. They're able to be put back together and they're not afraid of being torn apart.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 18, 2017 11:08:27 GMT -5
Remember, I have seen your picture of you when you traveled with your friends. You looked beautiful and radiant. Reminds me of how people complemented me on my looks after I told my husband I was divorcing him. My shoulders no longer carried his dead weight. I felt light and lovely and vibrant.
Your clinging to a miserable marriage is sucking the life out of you. You can choose to let go and live. Your therapist is wrong to suggest that you are fault for your husband’s behavior. If you are too strong for him then you are not compatible with him. You deserve a man who welcomesand celebrates the authentic you.
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Post by JMX on Nov 18, 2017 11:08:31 GMT -5
I am a strong woman too so I can relate to a lot of what you wrote. Here's the thing and your therapist may not know how ahead of the curve and self aware you are about yourself and your marriage. At the end of the day, and I know you know this: "it doesn't matter that he doesn't want sex with you". What really matters more is that it's not normal, it's his issues, and it does not have to be tolerated. In a relationship there are good parts and bad parts and it boils down to can we accept and live with the bad parts? Maybe we have ways to cope with the bad parts. What are the good parts of the relationship? If you said NONE then it's time to separate/ divorce. Some days are better than others. Do something nice for yourself and find your happiness. Hugs xoxo BBG, you are brilliant. I keep saying this in other cases and my own. Oh, it is so easy to get side tracked with minutiae. But there is normally ONE Problem that needs to be addressed first. So much of this "Counseling" stuff is just bromides. Heck, I can tell someone "Communication is the secret to a great relationship". It's a bromide. Something folks say when they don't know what else to say. JMX , have you considered how you and your husband communicate? Maybe you should work on that! What about how you're dressing? Have you considered having date nights? KIDDING!!! I'm sorry. I shouldn't mock. That was one of my "assignments" - work on putting together date nights. That's when I asked her why can't HE do that? When can I be the "girl"? Lol. 1.5 years of individual therapy - about one year of couple's therapy and we are back at date nights. Sometimes, you just have to laugh to keep from crying. It's so frustrating. I keep wondering if there is some ulterior motive to her madness or, if I really do need to do some more self-examination. But I am tired. The things I want to hangs about myself - they don't have anything do with him. And the change is very slow. I constantly fall back into my own old patterns, but I am aware of them! I don't know. Whatever.
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Post by TMD on Nov 18, 2017 11:10:06 GMT -5
And for the record, JMX, I know what you're referring to regarding "Submission" and strength. You're talking about vulnerability. And only the strongest can afford to be vulnerable. Weak folk need to keep all their parts well covered. If exposed and targeted, they'll fall apart. They'll be crushed. The strong folks can expose themselves and take the consequences. They're able to be put back together and they're not afraid of being torn apart. This. It’s vulnerability. Vulnerability is strength.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 18, 2017 11:11:48 GMT -5
.”What are the good parts of the relationship? If you said NONE then it's time to separate/ divorce. “
Even the worst relationships have done good parts. That’s why some choose to stay in SMs or with sbusive or irresponsible partners. One can choose to set the bar so low that living with anyone no matter how awful seems better than being alone.
Better to figure out what one’s ideal is and what one’s deal breakers are for relationships. If any deal breakers are present, that’s not the right relationship for you.
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Post by bballgirl on Nov 18, 2017 11:20:13 GMT -5
I am a strong woman too so I can relate to a lot of what you wrote. Here's the thing and your therapist may not know how ahead of the curve and self aware you are about yourself and your marriage. At the end of the day, and I know you know this: "it doesn't matter that he doesn't want sex with you". What really matters more is that it's not normal, it's his issues, and it does not have to be tolerated. In a relationship there are good parts and bad parts and it boils down to can we accept and live with the bad parts? Maybe we have ways to cope with the bad parts. What are the good parts of the relationship? If you said NONE then it's time to separate/ divorce. Some days are better than others. Do something nice for yourself and find your happiness. Hugs xoxo BBG, you are brilliant. I keep saying this in other cases and my own. Oh, it is so easy to get side tracked with minutiae. But there is normally ONE Problem that needs to be addressed first. So much of this "Counseling" stuff is just bromides. Heck, I can tell someone "Communication is the secret to a great relationship". It's a bromide. Something folks say when they don't know what else to say. JMX , have you considered how you and your husband communicate? Maybe you should work on that! What about how you're dressing? Have you considered having date nights? KIDDING!!! I'm sorry. I shouldn't mock. I love it when you tell me I'm brilliant! I agree with the "counseling stuff is just bromides". I do feel that counseling can be helpful to an individual but I've never been a big advocate of marriage counseling. I personally see it as a waste of time when it comes to SM. If I can't get you to fuck me then how the hell is a third party going to convince you to? But really - Why the fuck would I want to have sex with someone that has to be convinced into it. I would love to be a marriage counselor for SM. I would be short, sweet, to the point - like me! And I'd have a referral system and kickback going with a divorce attorney. No need to waste time and money for anyone. I am working on finding my happiness too. I have found that for me divorce was the right thing. I do however miss my ex and I would like to have a relationship with him, comfort, companionship and the family unit back together. I have no doubt that we love each other but not in a passionate way. As well I have no intention of being celibate.
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Post by bballgirl on Nov 18, 2017 11:22:28 GMT -5
.”What are the good parts of the relationship? If you said NONE then it's time to separate/ divorce. “ Even the worst relationships have done good parts. That’s why some choose to stay in SMs or with sbusive or irresponsible partners. One can choose to set the bar so low that living with anyone no matter how awful seems better than being alone. Better to figure out what one’s ideal is and what one’s deal breakers are for relationships. If any deal breakers are present, that’s not the right relationship for you. That's exactly right - is it a deal breaker? That's the bottom line in any relationship.
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Post by tirefire on Nov 18, 2017 11:23:56 GMT -5
Honestly, I would like to be taken care of at home. My therapist suggested that I push the "date night" initiative. I asked her - when do I get to be the "girl"? I am not sure how to explain that. I feel I can add some perspective. By the time people show up on this board, the marriage is usually a train wreck. At least derailed if not upside down, on fire in the ditch. You are 15 years in and some really deep patterns have been established between you and your H. They will/would be very difficult to change even if both parties could see that and agreed to make a change. Changing who is stepping up to 'take charge' or'man up' would be very hard after 15 years. In my case, I take charge everywhere but battle for it at home. I lead at work, I lead in volunteer situations, I just get shit done. My W is a very strong personality. Always. Can't let go. In order to make it this far in the marriage, I have always backed off at home. No choice. In our early days, this was not my natural way and I had to force myself to back down, or submit, always or be prepared for a large battle ending in tears (hers). There was never opportunity for cooperative or collaborative discussion. Fast forward to now with over 20 years of this, any attempt by me to change these ruts we are in is very difficult. Humorously, W has started saying I need to take charge for the last couple of years. I have tried but I can't find a way through the wall of routine. We have our ways of interacting and I can't see how they will ever change. I don't know if your H is even capable of leading or taking charge but the ruts you are in would be very difficult to get out of. Not saying you are in any way like my W btw. I hope you can find a way forward, just providing my thoughts on the obstacles that would be there.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 11:25:56 GMT -5
BBG, you are brilliant. I keep saying this in other cases and my own. Oh, it is so easy to get side tracked with minutiae. But there is normally ONE Problem that needs to be addressed first. So much of this "Counseling" stuff is just bromides. Heck, I can tell someone "Communication is the secret to a great relationship". It's a bromide. Something folks say when they don't know what else to say. JMX , have you considered how you and your husband communicate? Maybe you should work on that! What about how you're dressing? Have you considered having date nights? KIDDING!!! I'm sorry. I shouldn't mock. That was one of my "assignments" - work on putting together date nights. That's when I asked her why can't HE do that? When can I be the "girl"? Lol. 1.5 years of individual therapy - about one year of couple's therapy and we are back at date nights. Sometimes, you just have to laugh to keep from crying. It's so frustrating. I keep wondering if there is some ulterior motive to her madness or, if I really do need to do some more self-examination. But I am tired. The things I want to hangs about myself - they don't have anything do with him. And the change is very slow. I constantly fall back into my own old patterns, but I am aware of them! I don't know. Whatever. No! Not "Whatever". Enough is enough. You're a bright woman and you know what this is. Yes, you have to work on yourself. What a great thing to do. Self-examine with a clear head. And then work hard at the things that should change to make you the best person you can be. But not for this marriage. These sexless marriages are toast. They're not even marriages. They're abusive, dysfunctional jokes. But if we don't get really serious about fixing ourselves to some degree, we'll wind right back in another one. And the second condition will be worse than the first. Definitely keep working on yourself, but not for your husband or this marriage. But to become the woman that your best possible suitor would love. And work hard at that so it doesn't take too long! We don't have all the time in the world. And don't take shortcuts either. Can I mention the @smartkat principle again and it's damning corollary? So simple, but it saves thousands of dollars in counseling deductibles and YEARS of misery and time wasting!
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Post by bballgirl on Nov 18, 2017 11:31:06 GMT -5
BBG, you are brilliant. I keep saying this in other cases and my own. Oh, it is so easy to get side tracked with minutiae. But there is normally ONE Problem that needs to be addressed first. So much of this "Counseling" stuff is just bromides. Heck, I can tell someone "Communication is the secret to a great relationship". It's a bromide. Something folks say when they don't know what else to say. JMX , have you considered how you and your husband communicate? Maybe you should work on that! What about how you're dressing? Have you considered having date nights? KIDDING!!! I'm sorry. I shouldn't mock. That was one of my "assignments" - work on putting together date nights. That's when I asked her why can't HE do that? When can I be the "girl"? Lol. 1.5 years of individual therapy - about one year of couple's therapy and we are back at date nights. Sometimes, you just have to laugh to keep from crying. It's so frustrating. I keep wondering if there is some ulterior motive to her madness or, if I really do need to do some more self-examination. But I am tired. The things I want to hangs about myself - they don't have anything do with him. And the change is very slow. I constantly fall back into my own old patterns, but I am aware of them! I don't know. Whatever. I totally get the date night thing! What did the therapist say? In my opinion you should take turns with date night. He has to participate and be engaged too. My ex and I had a date night. I invited him but he paid lol When he met me at the restaurant he joked and said he was afraid to accept because of the last time I told him to meet me at a restaurant I told him I was divorcing him. We laughed and I said - well I can't tell you that again. We had a nice dinner then walked around some stores together. He has not initiated a date night with me. I am the type now that I will keep score, I will journal, I will state the facts and at the end of the day it's up to both to cultivate a relationship and if both are not actively participating then really there is not a relationship.
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Post by bballgirl on Nov 18, 2017 11:34:59 GMT -5
Honestly, I would like to be taken care of at home. My therapist suggested that I push the "date night" initiative. I asked her - when do I get to be the "girl"? I am not sure how to explain that. I feel I can add some perspective. By the time people show up on this board, the marriage is usually a train wreck. At least derailed if not upside down, on fire in the ditch. You are 15 years in and some really deep patterns have been established between you and your H. They will/would be very difficult to change even if both parties could see that and agreed to make a change. Changing who is stepping up to 'take charge' or'man up' would be very hard after 15 years. In my case, I take charge everywhere but battle for it at home. I lead at work, I lead in volunteer situations, I just get shit done. My W is a very strong personality. Always. Can't let go. In order to make it this far in the marriage, I have always backed off at home. No choice. In our early days, this was not my natural way and I had to force myself to back down, or submit, always or be prepared for a large battle ending in tears (hers). There was never opportunity for cooperative or collaborative discussion. Fast forward to now with over 20 years of this, any attempt by me to change these ruts we are in is very difficult. Humorously, W has started saying I need to take charge for the last couple of years. I have tried but I can't find a way through the wall of routine. We have our ways of interacting and I can't see how they will ever change. I don't know if your H is even capable of leading or taking charge but the ruts you are in would be very difficult to get out of. Not saying you are in any way like my W btw. I hope you can find a way forward, just providing my thoughts on the obstacles that would be there. So true! At the end of the day people do not change. A big part is acceptance and is it a dealbreaker?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 11:37:56 GMT -5
BBG, you are brilliant. I keep saying this in other cases and my own. Oh, it is so easy to get side tracked with minutiae. But there is normally ONE Problem that needs to be addressed first. So much of this "Counseling" stuff is just bromides. Heck, I can tell someone "Communication is the secret to a great relationship". It's a bromide. Something folks say when they don't know what else to say. JMX , have you considered how you and your husband communicate? Maybe you should work on that! What about how you're dressing? Have you considered having date nights? KIDDING!!! I'm sorry. I shouldn't mock. I love it when you tell me I'm brilliant! I agree with the "counseling stuff is just bromides". I do feel that counseling can be helpful to an individual but I've never been a big advocate of marriage counseling. I personally see it as a waste of time when it comes to SM. If I can't get you to fuck me then how the hell is a third party going to convince you to? But really - Why the fuck would I want to have sex with someone that has to be convinced into it. I would love to be a marriage counselor for SM. I would be short, sweet, to the point - like me! And I'd have a referral system and kickback going with a divorce attorney. No need to waste time and money for anyone. I am working on finding my happiness too. I have found that for me divorce was the right thing. I do however miss my ex and I would like to have a relationship with him, comfort, companionship and the family unit back together. I have no doubt that we love each other but not in a passionate way. As well I have no intention of being celibate. Not as much as I love the brilliance. Yup. Since when does communication prevent someone from wanting to make love to their loved one? Or who doesn't know how to ask for some affection? Or who should have to be asked a "Certain Way"? It's all BS. Let's work for 18 months to see if we can get George to ask Kate on a date. And then teach Kate to say "Y E S". Back to the drawing board. I'm still waiting for the explanation of the solution to someone in a marriage using affection as currency, leverage, or a weapon. These are pathological, and I'm starting to believe the folks that do it are simply NOT self-Aware enough to recognize it EVEN WHEN ITS POINTED OUT TO THEM. They can't recognize it, they can't see it as a problem, and they can't fix it. This -- affection as currency, leverage, or a weapon -- is the whole thing with these sexless marriages. Sex isn't even the problem. It's the person. And the can't be fixed except sometimes by the Divorce.
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