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Post by choosinghappy on Nov 12, 2017 15:25:27 GMT -5
My therapist had me list out my Needs, Desires and Concerns when it comes to sex and intimacy with my husband. This is a very vulnerable thing for me to write out but hey, I don't truly know you people, haha, so here goes:
My Needs seem very meager to me. They include:
- SOME touch
- SOME sex
- More than a roommate situation
- Not to be made to feel ugly/undesirable any longer
- Not to be made to feel stupid/strange for wanting sex
My Desires (still meager IMO but truthfully, I think H will be unable or unwilling to provide most if not all of these):
- Passion
- Spontaneity
- Desire from H/to feel wanted
- Cuddling
- Giving and receiving oral
- Different positions
- Different locations
- Talk about fantasies together
- Try new things together (role playing, dress up, etc.)
- No embarrassment
Concerns:
- He will never truly desire me or be attracted to me
- We'll go through years of "working on it" just to learn it's impossible
- I'll lose all confidence and self-esteem
- I'll have to cheat
- We'll divorce
In the Needs category I know I need to define what "some" touch and "some" sex mean: What is the bare minimum # that is acceptable to me? What kinds of touch, both sexual and non-sexual?
I found this to be a helpful exercise and I plan to discuss it with my H when he's ready for that conversation, but I'm sharing here because I'm interested to see if there may be things I have completely overlooked, and also what you would come up with for your own list.
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Post by choosinghappy on Nov 12, 2017 15:31:31 GMT -5
Concerns: - He will never truly desire me or be attracted to me - We'll go through years of "working on it" just to learn it's impossible - I'll lose all confidence and self-esteem - I'll have to cheat - We'll divorce And I'll add one more to the Concerns category: - That when he's finally able to be intimate with me again, I'll find I'm no longer willing/able to be intimate with him
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Post by h on Nov 12, 2017 16:02:28 GMT -5
Needs: To have sex that isn't out of duty or obligation. To be wanted/desired To have mutually enjoyable and intimate sex at least weekly To be validated in my desires and not belittled for them
Desires: To have more variety of positions To have mutually enjoyable sex several times a week. To be able to give and receive oral a few times a year (out of desire, not obligation) To share mutual trust and vulnerability with her To have her talk more openly with me about what she wants sexually To have our sex life be a source of emotional support and connection
Concerns: That she will never be willing to listen to or value my needs That she will never recognize the depth of pain she has caused me That she will stall and delay until I am forced to divorce her just to keep my sanity That she will not be able to take care of herself if we do divorce
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Post by hopingforachange on Nov 12, 2017 16:20:41 GMT -5
choosinghappyFor me the quality and emotional intimacy is just as important and in some ways more important then quantity
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 12, 2017 16:50:48 GMT -5
“Not to be made to feel ugly/undesirable any longer
- Not to be made to feel stupid/strange for wanting sex”
You own the key to changing those feelings. When you believ that you are like all human beings worthy of sexual intimacy, when you believe you are healthy and normal for desiring sex, then you will realize that your husband is strange for not including sexual love as part of your marriage. When you allow yourself to realize those things, then you will be able to decide whether the benefits of your marriage outweigh the fact that you are with a man whose sexual needs and perspective differ from yours.
Your individual therapy or reading more about the importance of sexual intimacy may help you view yourself as being normal and healthy to desire sex.
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Post by choosinghappy on Nov 12, 2017 18:24:34 GMT -5
choosinghappy For me the quality and emotional intimacy is just as important and in some ways more important then quantity I agree with this but when I've been so starved for so long I'll take quantity over quality right now. And that is also something for me to think about: I realized in writing my list I had in the back of my mind what I *think* might be doable based on what my H may be willing/able to work towards. I know I should rethink that and think about what it is I TRULY want/need, without taking his issues into account. Otherwise what's the point of the exercise, eh?
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Post by choosinghappy on Nov 12, 2017 18:26:45 GMT -5
“Not to be made to feel ugly/undesirable any longer - Not to be made to feel stupid/strange for wanting sex” You own the key to changing those feelings. When you believ that you are like all human beings worthy of sexual intimacy, when you believe you are healthy and normal for desiring sex, then you will realize that your husband is strange for not including sexual love as part of your marriage. When you allow yourself to realize those things, then you will be able to decide whether the benefits of your marriage outweigh the fact that you are with a man whose sexual needs and perspective differ from yours. Your individual therapy or reading more about the importance of sexual intimacy may help you view yourself as being normal and healthy to desire sex. Thanks northstarmom, I have definitely made progress in this area over the last handful of months. (Since joining this forum, really.) I don't know if I will be able to ever truly feel these things from him or not - I may only be able to truly feel that if I am either alone or with someone else.
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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 12, 2017 18:35:14 GMT -5
choosinghappy For me the quality and emotional intimacy is just as important and in some ways more important then quantity If there's quality, quantity wont be far behind!!! (no pun intended)
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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 12, 2017 18:40:54 GMT -5
My Needs seem very meager to me. They include: - SOME touch - SOME sex - More than a roommate situation - Not to be made to feel ugly/undesirable any longer - Not to be made to feel stupid/strange for wanting sex That is so sad......so wrong........and so true! Wishing you big hugs filled with care, compassion, and desire!!
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Post by DryCreek on Nov 12, 2017 19:51:31 GMT -5
choosinghappy, I'd have to add kissing to your list of Needs... but overall, your bar is set waaaay too low. That doesn't strike me as a list you'll be happy with in 20+ years. And recycling my old writings, your concerns are valid about not desiring him if he ever comes around. As I'm fond of saying, you don't have to be married in order to support his healing - you can live your life too. iliasm.org/thread/12/refusing-slippery-slopeh... that's a good list. Oral would need to move up to Needs, at least with giving multiple times monthly in the Desires category...
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Post by h on Nov 12, 2017 20:09:17 GMT -5
choosinghappy , I'd have to add kissing to your list of Needs... but overall, your bar is set waaaay too low. That doesn't strike me as a list you'll be happy with in 20+ years. And recycling my old writings, your concerns are valid about not desiring him if he ever comes around. As I'm fond of saying, you don't have to be married in order to support his healing - you can live your life too. iliasm.org/thread/12/refusing-slippery-slopeh ... that's a good list. Oral would need to move up to Needs, at least with giving multiple times monthly in the Desires category... Honestly, I could learn to live without oral if I had the connection of regular sex. I'm willing to compromise on a lot if my W would take some steps towards meeting me part way.
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Post by choosinghappy on Nov 12, 2017 20:10:57 GMT -5
Great read DryCreek , thank you. And yes, kissing is indeed important. Honestly, it's been so long without it with my H I forgot about it. I need to re-evaluate what I truly want and need.
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Post by workingonit on Nov 12, 2017 20:16:17 GMT -5
choosinghappy I think you need to really think about your needs. I was particularly struck by "feeling desired by h" and "no embarrassment" as desires. I would never want anyone- man or woman- to not have those things in their minimal requirements. You DESERVE those things. I think it is amazing that you are wiling to meet him in a compromise but is this really meeting him or are you just selling yourself dangerously short? If you do not feel desired, if you feel embarrassed by sex with him, how in the world will that be good for your emotional and mental health? Just a thought. I know your h is dealing with some heavy stuff and your roles are not equal. Unlike some on these boards, I think there are ways that kind of relationship can work. But your minimum is certainly worth considering so you don't diminish yourself. h this is a beautiful and sad list. Well done.
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Post by choosinghappy on Nov 12, 2017 20:20:42 GMT -5
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Post by baza on Nov 12, 2017 22:02:56 GMT -5
I reckon that if you are going to make a list of needs / desires then you may as well go for broke on them. There doesn't seem to be any point in making a list of minimum standards.
The "concerns" issue is another matter, and need to address the factual position as it is right now.
The concerns you have listed - - He will never truly desire me or be attracted to me - We'll go through years of "working on it" just to learn it's impossible - I'll lose all confidence and self-esteem - I'll have to cheat - We'll divorce all seem realistic to me. The question really is "can you handle these scenarios ??"
See, if you can deal with these scenarios, then the fear factor diminishes. And if the fear factor diminishes, then you can look at the issue objectively. And if you look at the situation objectively, then you can make fully informed choices that are in your longer term best interests. And it is making fully informed choices based on your longer term best interests that will bring this situation to resolution.
If, as yet, you have not consulted a` lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish how a divorce would theoretically shake out for you, I would suggest that you do so. The knowledge can not possibly hurt you, and indeed may alleviate a` lot of fear.
And, at some point, you have to put a time limit on this. Your spouse awarded himself a 9 year time limit on witholding this abuse matter from you. I think your time limit will have to be a great deal shorter.
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