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Post by carl on Jan 12, 2018 21:57:36 GMT -5
I figure most people know the answer to this but I can’t completely make sense of it. Why would a refuser want their partner to be faithful ? ... I was wondering what everyone’s thought were with regards to a refuser wanting their partner to stay but not tolerating outsourcing. It seems hypocritical. In my case, my wife hasn't/doesn't see herself as the "refuser" in a sexless marriage. She may admit to being the low-libido partner, but she still expects fidelity. She ties the concept/value of fidelity to the marriage... not the current state of sexual relations within the marriage. In other words, she interprets our wedding vows as: "Now that we're married, you'll be faithful to me."
Not: "Now that we're married, you'll be faithful to me as long as we are having a healthy, mutually-fulfilling, ongoing marital sex life."
Truth is: NEITHER of those phrases were exchanged at our wedding... nor at anytime before or after! So we are both guilty of making some assumptions, and editing in some clarifications post-wedding. By the way, now that I'm at the stage of counter-refusing (not asking her for sex in over two years, and so there has been none), she believes she open to the idea, and I'm the one who has rebuffed her. So on the grain of truth that is there, she would have no tolerance for extra-marital activity, as, in her view, she's available. (I think she thinks I don't want sex. I don't know if she's figured out that I still do... just not with her.) I am sure that marriage vows include sexual love in their meaning. I feel deep down in my soul that in my case my wife has not kept those vows at all. There is an air of unimportance about sex. But it is a big thing. Sure sex isn’t everything but in my opinion some people need that physical bond more than others and life feels strange without it. So they are destined to find it elsewhere.
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 13, 2018 10:52:57 GMT -5
In my case, my wife hasn't/doesn't see herself as the "refuser" in a sexless marriage. She may admit to being the low-libido partner, but she still expects fidelity. She ties the concept/value of fidelity to the marriage... not the current state of sexual relations within the marriage. In other words, she interprets our wedding vows as: "Now that we're married, you'll be faithful to me."
Not: "Now that we're married, you'll be faithful to me as long as we are having a healthy, mutually-fulfilling, ongoing marital sex life."
Truth is: NEITHER of those phrases were exchanged at our wedding... nor at anytime before or after! So we are both guilty of making some assumptions, and editing in some clarifications post-wedding. By the way, now that I'm at the stage of counter-refusing (not asking her for sex in over two years, and so there has been none), she believes she open to the idea, and I'm the one who has rebuffed her. So on the grain of truth that is there, she would have no tolerance for extra-marital activity, as, in her view, she's available. (I think she thinks I don't want sex. I don't know if she's figured out that I still do... just not with her.) I am sure that marriage vows include sexual love in their meaning. I feel deep down in my soul that in my case my wife has not kept those vows at all. There is an air of unimportance about sex. But it is a big thing. Sure sex isn’t everything but in my opinion some people need that physical bond more than others and life feels strange without it. So they are destined to find it elsewhere. Very true but the fact of the matter is that no matter what, if you cheat, outsource or whatever you want to call it, if you get caught you will always always be the bad guy. Your life story of being rejected won’t count for shit.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 13, 2018 11:07:59 GMT -5
I am sure that marriage vows include sexual love in their meaning. I feel deep down in my soul that in my case my wife has not kept those vows at all. There is an air of unimportance about sex. But it is a big thing. Sure sex isn’t everything but in my opinion some people need that physical bond more than others and life feels strange without it. So they are destined to find it elsewhere. Very true but the fact of the matter is that no matter what, if you cheat, outsource or whatever you want to call it, if you get caught you will always always be the bad guy. Your life story of being rejected won’t count for shit. I'd like to give a quiet lower case, "amen" to that!! That is why I choose for me, to get divorced before having sex with someone else .To not give my W- or anyone one else- one ounce of ammunition against me. No matter how validated I would have felt, there comes choices to make , and just how much emotional crap I can handle. Then there's the thoughts of what i might end up doing to someone else, unintentionally.
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Post by sweetplumeria on Jan 14, 2018 7:18:40 GMT -5
Why would a refuser want their partner to be faithful ? I can see that outsourcing wouldn’t suite a lot of those who are refused for many good reasons but I was wondering what everyone’s thought were with regards to a refuser wanting their partner to stay but not tolerating outsourcing. It seems hypocritical. Fear of loss. How long will you want them once you admit to yourself they dont make you happy. I feel convinced the refuser knows the truth long before refusee and is just buying as much time as they can for whatever reason.
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Post by sweetplumeria on Jan 14, 2018 7:33:46 GMT -5
Unfortunately Refusers seem to be quite a selfish lot. This selfishness extends to sharing their partners. They are quite prepared to let their partners go hungry but would not allow anyone else to feed them. There probably isn't enough evidence to prove a theory either way, but enough posters have said it, so I am wondering if there is something there. Is the selfishness selective and is it deliberate or unintentional? Is control always a factor and is it a general personality trait or more limited to this area in the relationship? I have read a # of posts and replies where the non-sexual spouse is generous to a fault when it comes to other people or causes. Yet when it comes to intimacy, especially the sex act, the non-sexual spouse would rather put the marriage at risk, and in my case choose divorce, rather than allow or condone what would seem to be the most obvious and simply solution, outsourcing for their still sexual partner. Why do they empathize with strangers or causes but not with someone they supposedly care about? I cannot put a definitive answer to it. I wonder about this also and have experienced it. I hate it. I feel like its an ego boost. See world, I am not as bad as she/he thinks I am. Its definitaly a behaivor pattern.
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Post by sweetplumeria on Jan 14, 2018 7:48:49 GMT -5
Regular masturbation to fantasies of the kind of lovemaking I hoped to experience some Day was what kept me able to lubricate and enjoy postmenopausal sex when I had sex with Post sm lover. I hadn’t had any sex beside masturbation in 8 years. So that's the weird thing, is it takes more for women to get going, so frequent masturbation and kegals is a good thing for the ladies, but in men not so much, the refractory time varies, but the general time to recover semen is about 48 hours. And 7 -10 days men hit peak testosterone levels and then they level off at about 14 days, so anything over 14 days is unnecessary. But ladies are the ones that should be masturbating a couple times a day. How do you learn all this stuff... and what happens with a guy who cums more than once? Something comes out...
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Post by ironhamster on Jan 14, 2018 8:14:05 GMT -5
So that's the weird thing, is it takes more for women to get going, so frequent masturbation and kegals is a good thing for the ladies, but in men not so much, the refractory time varies, but the general time to recover semen is about 48 hours. And 7 -10 days men hit peak testosterone levels and then they level off at about 14 days, so anything over 14 days is unnecessary. But ladies are the ones that should be masturbating a couple times a day. How do you learn all this stuff... and what happens with a guy who cums more than once? Something comes out... If I wanted a large load, three days of abstinence is what it took. Three days about kills me. Fourteen is out of the question unless I have experienced some nasty illness or medical trauma. The more consecutive loads shot, the smaller the load. Once, twice, fine, but by the fourth load in a day, even in my 20's, there was very little fluid left.
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 14, 2018 10:06:56 GMT -5
How do you learn all this stuff... and what happens with a guy who cums more than once? Something comes out... If I wanted a large load, three days of abstinence is what it took. Three days about kills me. Fourteen is out of the question unless I have experienced some nasty illness or medical trauma. The more consecutive loads shot, the smaller the load. Once, twice, fine, but by the fourth load in a day, even in my 20's, there was very little fluid left. 14 days would be impossible for me as i would just ejaculate in my sleep before that time.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 14, 2018 10:42:14 GMT -5
If I wanted a large load, three days of abstinence is what it took. Three days about kills me. Fourteen is out of the question unless I have experienced some nasty illness or medical trauma. The more consecutive loads shot, the smaller the load. Once, twice, fine, but by the fourth load in a day, even in my 20's, there was very little fluid left. 14 days would be impossible for me as i would just ejaculate in my sleep before that time. OH YEA!! in your wet dreams!!! LOL. (couldn't resist)
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 14, 2018 10:56:13 GMT -5
Why would you want a large load? Does that cause stronger orgasms?
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 14, 2018 11:06:23 GMT -5
Why would you want a large load? Does that cause stronger orgasms? Yes it does. The end result lasts longer, more repetitive orgasms. Also the build up of sperm is still there. I can instantly go a second round, maybe a third. My penis is more sensitive stays harder. Does it stay harder longer? That depends on how well I can control the sensitivity. The draw back is what it's like all day to feel that " un-describable" feeling of having to release. It's good and it's bad at the same time. On a side note. This IS the first time I have ever gotten to say this to someone. It was several weeks ago when a woman used the word "blowjob" when we where speaking. It made me realize 25 yrs of marriage and those words have never been spoken. My W rejected any oral between us.
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 14, 2018 14:07:36 GMT -5
14 days would be impossible for me as i would just ejaculate in my sleep before that time. OH YEA!! in your wet dreams!!! LOL. (couldn't resist) And that’s why I never let it get that far!
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Post by M2G on Jan 15, 2018 12:23:39 GMT -5
Why would you want a large load? Does that cause stronger orgasms? Longer, stronger, much more intense for sure - and if you start going slower and slower just before climax you can sometimes feel it down to your toes - at least in my experience.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 15, 2018 16:58:25 GMT -5
I figure most people know the answer to this but I can’t completely make sense of it. Why would a refuser want their partner to be faithful ? I can see that outsourcing wouldn’t suite a lot of those who are refused for many good reasons but I was wondering what everyone’s thought were with regards to a refuser wanting their partner to stay but not tolerating outsourcing. It seems hypocritical. By choosing to be celibate but instead calling it monogamy, then both parties are partners invested in preserving the fiction of a marriage and its associated benefits. On the other hand, taking an external partner drops the fiction you both share and acknowledges that the "marital" relationship does not include a romantic sexually intimate element at all. It's not really a deal that either of you would have signed up for, and you both need to confront that. In a sense, the bottom drops out of an inflated market and there is a higher chance of a "correction" back to the real world value. You both then are forced to ask "what is marriage bringing to the table that amicable ex-spouses don't?" Usually, if it gets to this point, the spouse who does not desire his or her partner already feels deficient, and now faces the prospect of having that deficiency graphically illustrated in a very personal and intimate way. It's likely to be intolerable, and likely will compel a response that they are trying to put off, just as you are. The intimacy averse spouse is invested in the lie to preserve the benefits associated with marriage. Anything that brings that lie into clear focus is unlikely to align with their goals.
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Post by njsojourner on Jan 15, 2018 23:44:34 GMT -5
In my case, my wife hasn't/doesn't see herself as the "refuser" in a sexless marriage. She may admit to being the low-libido partner, but she still expects fidelity. She ties the concept/value of fidelity to the marriage... not the current state of sexual relations within the marriage. In other words, she interprets our wedding vows as: "Now that we're married, you'll be faithful to me."
Not: "Now that we're married, you'll be faithful to me as long as we are having a healthy, mutually-fulfilling, ongoing marital sex life."
Truth is: NEITHER of those phrases were exchanged at our wedding... nor at anytime before or after! So we are both guilty of making some assumptions, and editing in some clarifications post-wedding. By the way, now that I'm at the stage of counter-refusing (not asking her for sex in over two years, and so there has been none), she believes she open to the idea, and I'm the one who has rebuffed her. So on the grain of truth that is there, she would have no tolerance for extra-marital activity, as, in her view, she's available. (I think she thinks I don't want sex. I don't know if she's figured out that I still do... just not with her.) I am sure that marriage vows include sexual love in their meaning. I feel deep down in my soul that in my case my wife has not kept those vows at all. There is an air of unimportance about sex. But it is a big thing. Sure sex isn’t everything but in my opinion some people need that physical bond more than others and life feels strange without it. So they are destined to find it elsewhere.
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