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Post by ironhamster on Oct 27, 2017 6:15:51 GMT -5
I did a brief totting up and realised that, either by myself or with my wife, I have been to see 5 different counsellors over the last 8 years, and mostly for a decent number of sessions. I have referenced the sexlessness of my marriage with all of them. The strange thing to me now is that none of them appeared to recognise or acknowledge the existence of sexless marriage. Maybe from the counsellor's perspective, we are not a special case at all (as we perhaps see ourselves) but just one more point on the continuum of non-functioning relationships. Has anyone actually been to see a counsellor who has a handle on sexless marriage? I have yet to go to a counselor, but I will post whatever I find interesting about my experiences when they happen. I have been resistant to counselling in the past, because I expected no sympathy, and saw no point in paying large sums of money to be told to be happy in my misery. Now, I see that it is possible to have a sympathetic counsellor, and I believe I can defend myself against a hostile one. My wife now seems resistant. She is puzzled by my sudden acceptance of her challenge to air our problems in front of a professional.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 27, 2017 6:31:56 GMT -5
It can be very valuable to have an individual counselor. In picking one, you can interview the person and find out their perspective about the importance of sex in marriage. Select one whose views align with yours. Having a good individual counselor who helped me hear myself and build the life I wanted is what eventually led to my being able to leave my marriage. I realized I could not change my husband’s behavior, but could choose to have a better life.
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 27, 2017 11:43:59 GMT -5
I did a brief totting up and realised that, either by myself or with my wife, I have been to see 5 different counsellors over the last 8 years, and mostly for a decent number of sessions. I have referenced the sexlessness of my marriage with all of them. The strange thing to me now is that none of them appeared to recognise or acknowledge the existence of sexless marriage. Maybe from the counsellor's perspective, we are not a special case at all (as we perhaps see ourselves) but just one more point on the continuum of non-functioning relationships. Has anyone actually been to see a counsellor who has a handle on sexless marriage? I have yet to go to a counselor, but I will post whatever I find interesting about my experiences when they happen. I have been resistant to counselling in the past, because I expected no sympathy, and saw no point in paying large sums of money to be told to be happy in my misery. Now, I see that it is possible to have a sympathetic counsellor, and I believe I can defend myself against a hostile one. My wife now seems resistant. She is puzzled by my sudden acceptance of her challenge to air our problems in front of a professional. Ahhh.....yes, the money issue!! Many surveys show that to be the number one reason for divorce. At least you can sleep well knowing that the money issue came up long after thoughts of divorce due to the SM came to play. What little comfort that may be, it does speak volumes about your character and values. I had similar experiences. It was after hiring the attorney,and declaring the divorce process, when the moving of money received a big ol' spotlight on it! Another confirmation that I am making the right choice, and my STBX deserves zero trust from me, and far less from the rest of the family.
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Post by ironhamster on Oct 27, 2017 11:54:12 GMT -5
I think you meant to quote the credit card post. Perhaps I was penny pinching and dollar foolish. The money spent on a counsellor that would have told us we were incompatible is nothing compared to what I just noticed had vaporized.
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 27, 2017 11:58:10 GMT -5
I think you meant to quote the credit card post. Perhaps I was penny pinching and dollar foolish. The money spent on a counsellor that would have told us we were incompatible is nothing compared to what I just noticed had vaporized. I did quote the wrong thing didn't I! Yes I meant the credit card. There is some positive to it. It strengthens your case. it shows the lack of honesty, and the deception that has been going on.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 27, 2017 12:11:09 GMT -5
"Now, I see that it is possible to have a sympathetic counsellor, and I believe I can defend myself against a hostile one."
If a counselor is hostile, that's the wrong counselor for you! It wouldn't be worth it to defend yourself against such a counselor. It would be worth it to leave that counseling and find a counselor who listens to you and treats you with respect.
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Post by ironhamster on Oct 27, 2017 12:23:07 GMT -5
"Now, I see that it is possible to have a sympathetic counsellor, and I believe I can defend myself against a hostile one." If a counselor is hostile, that's the wrong counselor for you! It wouldn't be worth it to defend yourself against such a counselor. It would be worth it to leave that counseling and find a counselor who listens to you and treats you with respect. I know, and I agree, but I am letting her pick the counselor. I am not going to be told to suck it up and deal with it, and I am past the point of hoping my wife will suddenly develop healthy sexual habits after fifty years of nothing. I know where I am at, and I know where she is at, and I am tired of the game. I suspect it may go like the counseling session bballgirl had, where the counselor told her husband to get a lawyer.
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 27, 2017 12:42:46 GMT -5
"Now, I see that it is possible to have a sympathetic counsellor, and I believe I can defend myself against a hostile one." If a counselor is hostile, that's the wrong counselor for you! It wouldn't be worth it to defend yourself against such a counselor. It would be worth it to leave that counseling and find a counselor who listens to you and treats you with respect. I know, and I agree, but I am letting her pick the counselor. I am not going to be told to suck it up and deal with it, and I am past the point of hoping my wife will suddenly develop healthy sexual habits after fifty years of nothing. I know where I am at, and I know where she is at, and I am tired of the game. I suspect it may go like the counseling session bballgirl had, where the counselor told her husband to get a lawyer. It's a good step towards the divorce. A lot of judges, attorneys, -laws- want to know, and recommend you get counseling first.
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Post by csl on Oct 27, 2017 17:17:33 GMT -5
ironhamster,
from your post, it looks like you might have to go down GC's route and hire a forensic accountant, and force her to divulge credit card usage and separate accounts, in order to achieve an equitable split of assets.
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Post by baza on Oct 27, 2017 18:13:56 GMT -5
Quoting you here Brother ironhamster - " A year ago she had a five figure surplus in savings, and that has all evaporated, with a string of ~$4k credit card payments. I am scratching my head, wondering if she is squirreling away cash, or if she is relieving her stress by blowing money stupidly" Usually, where there has been such expenditure, there is something to show for it (like a wardrobe full of new frocks, or a newish car in the driveway, or something material and observable). If the money is just "gone" and there's nothing to show for it, gambling is one of the possible answers. As is the possibility she is further ahead of the game than you might be thinking and is indeed trying to hide what would otherwise be a divisible asset. In any event, whatever she is doing with each $1 she is spending / transferring, *you* are subsidising it by 50c. I am possibly projecting here from my own experience, but if it is gambling that is the issue, then BIG trouble looms, and action to discover the extent of it, and to safeguard against the continuation of it, is urgent. As in yesterday.
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Post by Caris on Oct 27, 2017 19:35:59 GMT -5
Open & honest communication is always good, I think. I’m glad she stopped faking & talked with you. A major flaw in her thinking, if I might: She is the only person in charge of her emotional bank account. She may well need to have it filled but it is up to HER to allow it to fill. I tend to fill mine through prayer/meditation, exercise (it’s just as good for mental health as it is for physical body), spending time with friends & program fellows, journaling (to process my own emotions: name & claim them). Etc. oh yeah, & corresponding with family. That one is last for me because my siblings & parents are pretty stressful for me but I am learning to manage my emotions & thoughts around them. Point being: You are not the one in charge of deposits to her account. She is the “teller” & needs to allow deposits- from kids, or you, or sex, or outside actions that have not much to do with you. But it’s up to her, it’s an inside job. Looking outside ourselves for a base foundation of happiness won’t ever work. We must build the base, however we can, & THEN other people in our lives can add to it or enhance it. It’s not your fault she is a miserable cuss. I don’t agree with your assessment, Grant, that it is only ourselves that can fill up our emotional bank account. If others drain our emotions (as they do), they can also fill them up. Just imagine a person with no affection, no touch, no hugs, no encouragement, no support, then imagine one having all of that. The first will be emotionally deprived, and the latter will be emotionally nourished. We are not islands. Other people influence our emotions all our lives. If that wasn’t the case, then sexless marriages wouldn’t bother us. We’d go out and find sex, but many don’t because it’s more than the physical deprivation, It’s the emotional deprivation. Knowing we are loved and wanted nourishes our soul/emotions.
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Post by M2G on Oct 27, 2017 22:57:25 GMT -5
As far as counselors, one should be able, to be reasonably certain that said counselor be neutral, and council based on what's best. Sadly I hear many stories where that is indeed well off the mark. In any case, I don't believe a councilor is going to waive Harry Potter's wand at my W, yell: "Copulatonus!" and make my W want to fuck me.
If that did happen, I have a well grounded fear that I would be in a similar mindset as our friend Ironhamster, or worse, be thinking: "what the fuck is she up to? Why now? Etc.". Active brain forgetting all about arousal in a whirl of confusion. Shrinkage!
TG we don't have cash bleed going on. Got some problems in that area but on the same page as to the decision making.
If you're not both OK with where the $$ are going, then yes lawyer up as quickly as you can.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 27, 2017 23:33:41 GMT -5
Open & honest communication is always good, I think. I’m glad she stopped faking & talked with you. A major flaw in her thinking, if I might: She is the only person in charge of her emotional bank account. She may well need to have it filled but it is up to HER to allow it to fill. I tend to fill mine through prayer/meditation, exercise (it’s just as good for mental health as it is for physical body), spending time with friends & program fellows, journaling (to process my own emotions: name & claim them). Etc. oh yeah, & corresponding with family. That one is last for me because my siblings & parents are pretty stressful for me but I am learning to manage my emotions & thoughts around them. Point being: You are not the one in charge of deposits to her account. She is the “teller” & needs to allow deposits- from kids, or you, or sex, or outside actions that have not much to do with you. But it’s up to her, it’s an inside job. Looking outside ourselves for a base foundation of happiness won’t ever work. We must build the base, however we can, & THEN other people in our lives can add to it or enhance it. It’s not your fault she is a miserable cuss. I don’t agree with your assessment, Grant, that it is only ourselves that can fill up our emotional bank account. If others drain our emotions (as they do), they can also fill them up. Just imagine a person with no affection, no touch, no hugs, no encouragement, no support, then imagine one having all of that. The first will be emotionally deprived, and the latter will be emotionally nourished. We are not islands. Other people influence our emotions all our lives. If that wasn’t the case, then sexless marriages wouldn’t bother us. We’d go out and find sex, but many don’t because it’s more than the physical deprivation, It’s the emotional deprivation. Knowing we are loved and wanted nourishes our soul/emotions. I agree at the maximums. The far end of emotional deprivation - there are studies on failure to thrive in babies and extremes like that. For many people though — - I should say for ME .... I used to catastrophize how alone I was when it was not that extreme. I also failed to acknowledge a lot of the options I did have. Available options but they had consequences (or potential or imagined ones) that made me write them off prior to really investing. In this case though - I truly believe that his wife has much of the power to allow happiness in IF she would decide to do so. And I assert she is choosing not to allow the deposit in (attempts at affection, acts of service he gives to make her day better). I found ways to allow more positive in. But I agree it isn’t always possible. I’m not always capable of it, myself. Even when I’m working at it, sometimes.
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Post by DryCreek on Oct 28, 2017 19:16:46 GMT -5
ironhamster, time for individual bank accounts and putting her on an allowance. More drastic (and prudent) is also promptly filing for financial separation and canceling joint credit, to prevent her from accruing debt that you will be liable for. I've seen first-hand what this situation can lead to. I know someone who had a good career and retirement plans - his wife squandered repeatedly, leading to multiple "bailouts", and ultimately leaving them penniless and scraping by on Social Security and low-income programs. Be merciless.
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Post by shamwow on Nov 2, 2017 8:19:22 GMT -5
Open & honest communication is always good, I think. I’m glad she stopped faking & talked with you. A major flaw in her thinking, if I might: She is the only person in charge of her emotional bank account. She may well need to have it filled but it is up to HER to allow it to fill. I tend to fill mine through prayer/meditation, exercise (it’s just as good for mental health as it is for physical body), spending time with friends & program fellows, journaling (to process my own emotions: name & claim them). Etc. oh yeah, & corresponding with family. That one is last for me because my siblings & parents are pretty stressful for me but I am learning to manage my emotions & thoughts around them. Point being: You are not the one in charge of deposits to her account. She is the “teller” & needs to allow deposits- from kids, or you, or sex, or outside actions that have not much to do with you. But it’s up to her, it’s an inside job. Looking outside ourselves for a base foundation of happiness won’t ever work. We must build the base, however we can, & THEN other people in our lives can add to it or enhance it. It’s not your fault she is a miserable cuss. This ^^^^^^^
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