Is threatening to leave a form of coercion?
Oct 25, 2017 2:32:56 GMT -5
GeekGoddess, lwoetin, and 3 more like this
Post by james on Oct 25, 2017 2:32:56 GMT -5
Hello everyone! I discovered this site earlier this year and I really like it. You people are incredibly supportive to each other. I’m probably in this for the long haul, so I thought I'd better introduce myself.
Before I do that, here's my question: I am planning on giving my wife notice (6 years to be precise) of ending our relationship. I know what she will say. She will say that this is coercion/emotional blackmail and that it is not ok. To be honest I don’t really mind if she does say that, but I would like to have an answer ready. Is it coercion?
I am 52 years old. I live in the UK. I was married 17 years ago, and I have three children aged 16, 14 and 11. In retrospect there were a couple of very early warning signs that things might not turn out well, but the first very clear marker I have looking back is that after eight years of marriage, I took myself to see a relationship counsellor (alone) because the frequency of sex had dropped significantly and this had been going on for a year, maybe a bit more. My marriage has comfortably fulfilled one definition of sexless (<10 times per year) for the best part of the last ten years.
I have on many, many occasions said to my wife that the lack of sex in our marriage is a problem for me. She has never responded to these attempts to talk about the problem. If pressed she will produce a list of reasons: she was too tired with the kids, she had an early menopause, she has an underactive thyroid, I have been too angry, I have had episodes of anxiety and depression (a strangely common theme on this forum, I note). All of these things have put her off, and anyway “lots of people have sex lives which wax and wane”. We do have sex maybe half a dozen times a year, though this is heavily skewed to the summer. For example, this year we have had sex about five times but within a three week period in August, including our summer holiday. Not outside that.
My wife has often said that she is unhappy in her marriage to me. I get angry, my mental health issues have made me selfish and I don’t look after her needs. She mainly wants ‘quality time’ with me, not ‘big gestures’ (restaurant dinners, weekends away), just things like going on walks with her and spending time talking to her. I have tried to do these things- from her perspective, not enough though, it seems.
My wife is totally not ok with my outsourcing (she has said so) and so I wouldn’t do it, and never have. I would, gladly, if she gave me her consent, but she doesn’t, and I guess my main motivation is that I wouldn’t want to cede the moral high ground to her by cheating. Also, if she found out that I was cheating, she would leave me, and I would never want to separate while my children are still minors. My 11 year old in particular is a sweet, trusting child who is devoted to his family and simply would not deal with a major upheaval like that. I could never inflict that pain upon him through my own choice. Dealing with SM is much the easier option, not that it doesn’t hurt. Ultimately, when I leave the relationship, it will be on my terms, not hers.
This year something has given. Prior to 2017, it was unthinkable to me that I would ever separate from my wife. In March, I returned from an overseas trip and had a sudden moment of epiphany when I realised that it was not only thinkable but highly probable that I would separate. I stopped trying to please her so much (something I have tried to do a lot in the past) and started looking after myself a bit more. I stopped caring about whether or not the relationship would succeed, which was an amazing feeling. I had some email conversations with Venus Erotes of this site which were incredibly helpful (thank you, Venus).
In the summer we had a conversation we had had previously several times in which my wife reiterated how unhappy I made her and talked about separating, and I told her that living in a marriage without sex, in which outsourcing was not permitted was making me equally unhappy. Upshot was that this time, for the first time, I signed up to separating. I went to bed that night thinking that was it, but to my mild and not unpleasant surprise the following morning she gave me a hug, told me that divorce was a big step, and maybe we should try to patch things up. We went on holiday and had some quite nice sex. Even with some foreplay which is usually not allowed! I was happy. But we got back from holidays and into the family routine and that was it, nothing from September onwards. This pattern has happened many times before.
I have considered over a long period about what I should say to my wife about leaving her and this is where my thinking has recently become clearer. I wrote a previous post in which I said that I wouldn’t want to say to my wife that I would consider leaving her later on in case she just said ok, well “leave now”. Recent experience has shown that she might not in fact do this- and if she did, I think I would somehow find a way to deal with it. Also, I was helped by a recent post here and link to a blog post (maybe someone will recognize who this was, sorry I can’t remember name now), in which it was pointed out that it is not fair on a partner to walk out without prior warning. A fairer approach is to explain the problem, give a clear steer on what is required to fix it, and to make it clear that failure to fix it will result in termination of the relationship at a specified future time. This is in general how things seem to work regarding termination of contracts in the workplace and that also seems fair (my understanding anyway).
There could be a medical or psychological reason why she has a problem with sex and I want to give her the opportunity to explore it. My plan is to have a TalkTM with my wife around spring-time next year. I will explain to her that lack of sex in the marriage is a deal-breaker for me, I will give her some targets (see her doctor, see a psychosexual counsellor with me, negotiate frequency targets etc). If that doesn’t work, then in May 2024 (my youngest becomes 18) I will be leaving.
I am not optimistic. My wife has some marked personality traits, chief amongst which is that in areas where we come into conflict (actually there are not that many), she will not negotiate with me. God knows I’ve tried. See Gary Chapman Guide to Solving Conflicts without Arguing. I did all that. Love the book. Didn’t work though.
One thing I expect that my wife will say is that I am coercing her or emotionally blackmailing her into having sex with me, by threatening to leave her if she doesn’t. This is a tricky one because in fact there is an element of coercion.
I would really welcome any comments on the above scenario.
Before I do that, here's my question: I am planning on giving my wife notice (6 years to be precise) of ending our relationship. I know what she will say. She will say that this is coercion/emotional blackmail and that it is not ok. To be honest I don’t really mind if she does say that, but I would like to have an answer ready. Is it coercion?
I am 52 years old. I live in the UK. I was married 17 years ago, and I have three children aged 16, 14 and 11. In retrospect there were a couple of very early warning signs that things might not turn out well, but the first very clear marker I have looking back is that after eight years of marriage, I took myself to see a relationship counsellor (alone) because the frequency of sex had dropped significantly and this had been going on for a year, maybe a bit more. My marriage has comfortably fulfilled one definition of sexless (<10 times per year) for the best part of the last ten years.
I have on many, many occasions said to my wife that the lack of sex in our marriage is a problem for me. She has never responded to these attempts to talk about the problem. If pressed she will produce a list of reasons: she was too tired with the kids, she had an early menopause, she has an underactive thyroid, I have been too angry, I have had episodes of anxiety and depression (a strangely common theme on this forum, I note). All of these things have put her off, and anyway “lots of people have sex lives which wax and wane”. We do have sex maybe half a dozen times a year, though this is heavily skewed to the summer. For example, this year we have had sex about five times but within a three week period in August, including our summer holiday. Not outside that.
My wife has often said that she is unhappy in her marriage to me. I get angry, my mental health issues have made me selfish and I don’t look after her needs. She mainly wants ‘quality time’ with me, not ‘big gestures’ (restaurant dinners, weekends away), just things like going on walks with her and spending time talking to her. I have tried to do these things- from her perspective, not enough though, it seems.
My wife is totally not ok with my outsourcing (she has said so) and so I wouldn’t do it, and never have. I would, gladly, if she gave me her consent, but she doesn’t, and I guess my main motivation is that I wouldn’t want to cede the moral high ground to her by cheating. Also, if she found out that I was cheating, she would leave me, and I would never want to separate while my children are still minors. My 11 year old in particular is a sweet, trusting child who is devoted to his family and simply would not deal with a major upheaval like that. I could never inflict that pain upon him through my own choice. Dealing with SM is much the easier option, not that it doesn’t hurt. Ultimately, when I leave the relationship, it will be on my terms, not hers.
This year something has given. Prior to 2017, it was unthinkable to me that I would ever separate from my wife. In March, I returned from an overseas trip and had a sudden moment of epiphany when I realised that it was not only thinkable but highly probable that I would separate. I stopped trying to please her so much (something I have tried to do a lot in the past) and started looking after myself a bit more. I stopped caring about whether or not the relationship would succeed, which was an amazing feeling. I had some email conversations with Venus Erotes of this site which were incredibly helpful (thank you, Venus).
In the summer we had a conversation we had had previously several times in which my wife reiterated how unhappy I made her and talked about separating, and I told her that living in a marriage without sex, in which outsourcing was not permitted was making me equally unhappy. Upshot was that this time, for the first time, I signed up to separating. I went to bed that night thinking that was it, but to my mild and not unpleasant surprise the following morning she gave me a hug, told me that divorce was a big step, and maybe we should try to patch things up. We went on holiday and had some quite nice sex. Even with some foreplay which is usually not allowed! I was happy. But we got back from holidays and into the family routine and that was it, nothing from September onwards. This pattern has happened many times before.
I have considered over a long period about what I should say to my wife about leaving her and this is where my thinking has recently become clearer. I wrote a previous post in which I said that I wouldn’t want to say to my wife that I would consider leaving her later on in case she just said ok, well “leave now”. Recent experience has shown that she might not in fact do this- and if she did, I think I would somehow find a way to deal with it. Also, I was helped by a recent post here and link to a blog post (maybe someone will recognize who this was, sorry I can’t remember name now), in which it was pointed out that it is not fair on a partner to walk out without prior warning. A fairer approach is to explain the problem, give a clear steer on what is required to fix it, and to make it clear that failure to fix it will result in termination of the relationship at a specified future time. This is in general how things seem to work regarding termination of contracts in the workplace and that also seems fair (my understanding anyway).
There could be a medical or psychological reason why she has a problem with sex and I want to give her the opportunity to explore it. My plan is to have a TalkTM with my wife around spring-time next year. I will explain to her that lack of sex in the marriage is a deal-breaker for me, I will give her some targets (see her doctor, see a psychosexual counsellor with me, negotiate frequency targets etc). If that doesn’t work, then in May 2024 (my youngest becomes 18) I will be leaving.
I am not optimistic. My wife has some marked personality traits, chief amongst which is that in areas where we come into conflict (actually there are not that many), she will not negotiate with me. God knows I’ve tried. See Gary Chapman Guide to Solving Conflicts without Arguing. I did all that. Love the book. Didn’t work though.
One thing I expect that my wife will say is that I am coercing her or emotionally blackmailing her into having sex with me, by threatening to leave her if she doesn’t. This is a tricky one because in fact there is an element of coercion.
I would really welcome any comments on the above scenario.