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Post by h on Oct 29, 2017 9:41:37 GMT -5
Sometimes I am managing ok then something sets me off. The other day it was seeing durex in the supermarket that said ‘lovesex’. I thought I love sex then I felt miserable and depressed, I couldn’t leave fast enough. Yeah, sorry to hear that. Emotional triggers like that can hit you out of nowhere and knock you flat on your ass. Still dealing with a lot of those myself. Sometimes it helps to say: "get out of my head!" Out loud works best but in the presence of others I usually don't vocalize lest the men in white coats come to take me away.. ..Ha Ha. For me, that's the worst also sarah because there's no warning. There are stations on the radio that I can't listen to anymore because there are too many songs that reference sex. I avoid movies with any love scenes or nudity, and change the channel if TV commercials or shows mention love or sex. You can't avoid them all though and the unexpected ones really bother me. I know how you feel.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 29, 2017 10:01:22 GMT -5
By the time I had been married a year, I couldn't stand to see couples kissing in the street I longed for passion. I felt embarrassed by sex scenes even in romantic comedies. Felt more embarrassed if I was watching them with my husband. My mind screamed, "passion," as something that I longed for.
More than 30 years later and after mechanically conceiving two children, I finally listened to myself and honored my own needs by divorcing him. I was 61.
Don't be like me.
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sarah
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Post by sarah on Oct 29, 2017 15:08:21 GMT -5
Thanks for the understanding and sympathy miles2go, h and northstarmom.
It seems to be everywhere today, kissing hugging couples. It used to make me happy seeing them but now I feel so unhappy as it is a reminder of my life which contains none of that apart from a perfunctory peck on the cheek.
If only I could turn the desire and longing off then I would find it easier to cope.
I have become a counter refuser now. I can’t take him seriously when he offers anyway. Doesn’t follow through and I just lie there disappointed like I do every night.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2017 17:07:52 GMT -5
I have been married to my husband for 15 years. It is mostly a happy marriage. As I have reached my forties, my sex drive has rocketed. In some sort of cruel twist of fate, my husbands sex drive appears to be zero. It has been dwindling for years. Requests for sex would be met with falling asleep, agreeing and then falling asleep, calling me a silly teenager, rolling his eyes at me. Still I was stupid and kept asking him for sex. Often it wasn't great but it felt better than nothing. Even that dwindled away. It got to the point where I told him I wanted to look for other men. He said he would make an effort. Tiny bit of effort and then back to nothing again. Even went on holiday for two weeks to a beautiful hot country, guess what? No sex. He won't even share a bed with me. Hasn't throughout our whole marriage. I started chatting online to other men. Met a young man. We didn't have penetrative sex but kissed and did other things. I thought it would help. It felt wonderful to be desired but this was a mistake as now I just realised what I have been missing. I also can't handle sex without feelings. I have just made my situation worse. I have been looking thoroughly miserable lately and he actually noticed, I told him it was the lack of sex. He offered sex, and I told him no. I don't know whether I just wanted to punish him for rejecting and ignoring my desires for years. He has just pretended nothing has happened and it is back to sexless marriage again. Finding it difficult to carry on, not in a financial position to leave and also have a young child. I dont even bother touching myself anymore, thinking I should just accept this is my life now. Keep telling myself sex is for other people, not for me. If I keep wanting it, it will just destroy me. But this is making me die inside as well. Sorry to read. Welcome. I hope you find some support here.
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Post by Apocrypha on Nov 2, 2017 13:54:11 GMT -5
Apocrypha - it is like being with an ex spouse. It is amicable. I read someone describing it on this forum as roommates. That’s what we are. He will make me a cup of tea, do household chores, be a good father but that’s it. We go to our separate rooms every evening. He treats me well, and is kind, generous and supportive. It makes it harder to leave as I am not being treated badly. But then I am being treated badly because he ignores my desires and needs. He is now saying I refused sex because when he offered it, I said what’s the point anymore? And that I have given up. I didn’t even bother to argue with him I understand that - it's a common motif, including in my own former marriage. So, you make good roommates. I don't mean that to be flip. I'm agreeing with and acknowledging a true benefit shared in your existing relationship. The problems come from the disappointment and frustration that you have - in that you happen to be MARRIED to this person - and your relationship does not meet the defining criteria of what a marriage is. You are living the fantasy of a marriage, and you haven't given up. Your despair over his failure to act according to the reasonable definition of what a marriage is, is proof of that. I don't despair that my relatively amicable ex-wife doesn't fuck me. I don't think it at all unusual that I don't sleep with her. That's because I gave up, and renegotiated the nature of my relationship with her. Check my original post again in response to what you said. The whole point of it was to show you that he is well aware of your desires and needs - it's not ignorance or indifference or carelessness. He does not WANT to fuck you. Actively Avoids it. At the risk of his marriage and lifestyle. It would be easy to do it if he was neither here nor there, or just tired. This is different than that. You can't change how he feels. So it comes down to what are you going to do? If you both play your cards right, you might be able to have one of those occasional amicable partings where you are able to keep the most positive aspects of your bond with your friend, while seeking a partner elsewhere.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Nov 2, 2017 14:07:35 GMT -5
"He offered sex, and I told him no. I don't know whether I just wanted to punish him for rejecting and ignoring my desires for years. He has just pretended nothing has happened and it is back to sexless marriage again" THIS IS THE CYCLE!
There is a, "yet to be sufficiently diagnosed" disconnect, lack of empathy or lack of understanding as to how important sex really is to a relationship. It is a mental scramble for us all, though this forum really helps with understanding the reality we are in.
I have spent so many years "fighting" for the marriage with little reciprocation. I begin looking back and wonder how intense is the fog I may be in even to this day, as I know I am not doing the things I expected to in life. This has taken such precedence for years, I have neglected dreams and wasted many hours waiting for "sex to arrive".
"thinking I should just accept this is my life now. Keep telling myself sex is for other people, not for me. If I keep wanting it, it will just destroy me. But this is making me die inside as well."
For the past year, my W has been much less controlling in all respects. And will acquiesce to my request for sex when I initiate. But the sex is just "eh" as ironhamster describes it. It is me doing all the work and with little else allowed other than "the deed". To that, I am constantly between staying and leaving which makes the future a daily unknown.
But as mentioned in previous posts, when we frame the situation with how things could be worse as they are for so many people, it seems to keep us going another day.
So even with sex this morning, I am not sure I'd say no to the neighbor if she were to knock on the door right now. And actually, I think my W would endorse it as along as her life didn't have to change.
Sarah, when you say "thinking I should just accept this is my life now. Keep telling myself sex is for other people, not for me. If I keep wanting it, it will just destroy me. But this is making me die inside as well".
I find that not wanting it does not last and we do keep dying inside. If he is nothing more than an Acquiescer (my new word), maybe just give him a calendar for NOVEMBER as to days for sex. It is not much, but it puts him on notice for which days to be available and you'll at least have an immediate better outlook knowing you may have a better month. My point is, if you can make some sex occur regardless of how "eh" you'll feel somewhat better about how you plan your days and maybe an eventual break. I and your circumstance are similar with kids,..... a duplex is the best solution.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Nov 2, 2017 14:17:21 GMT -5
Apocrypha - it is like being with an ex spouse. It is amicable. I read someone describing it on this forum as roommates. That’s what we are. He will make me a cup of tea, do household chores, be a good father but that’s it. We go to our separate rooms every evening. He treats me well, and is kind, generous and supportive. It makes it harder to leave as I am not being treated badly. But then I am being treated badly because he ignores my desires and needs. He is now saying I refused sex because when he offered it, I said what’s the point anymore? And that I have given up. I didn’t even bother to argue with him I understand that - it's a common motif, including in my own former marriage. So, you make good roommates. I don't mean that to be flip. I'm agreeing with and acknowledging a true benefit shared in your existing relationship. The problems come from the disappointment and frustration that you have - in that you happen to be MARRIED to this person - and your relationship does not meet the defining criteria of what a marriage is. You are living the fantasy of a marriage, and you haven't given up. Your despair over his failure to act according to the reasonable definition of what a marriage is, is proof of that. I don't despair that my relatively amicable ex-wife doesn't fuck me. I don't think it at all unusual that I don't sleep with her. That's because I gave up, and renegotiated the nature of my relationship with her. Check my original post again in response to what you said. The whole point of it was to show you that he is well aware of your desires and needs - it's not ignorance or indifference or carelessness. He does not WANT to fuck you. Actively Avoids it. At the risk of his marriage and lifestyle. It would be easy to do it if he was neither here nor there, or just tired. This is different than that. You can't change how he feels. So it comes down to what are you going to do? If you both play your cards right, you might be able to have one of those occasional amicable partings where you are able to keep the most positive aspects of your bond with your friend, while seeking a partner elsewhere. So well said Apocrypha, They don't want to have sex with us for reasons that will never be clear. So yes, you renegotiate the relationship in your mind. But living in the same house is too much pressure on our libido's and we for get quickly what we negotiated. So as long as I have decided to stay in the house I am pushing the issue, taking the "eh" sex while preparing for an eventual break. Every day I make a little progress toward unloading stuff, no joint accounts, very little debt.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Nov 2, 2017 14:52:28 GMT -5
Apocrypha - it is like being with an ex spouse. It is amicable. I read someone describing it on this forum as roommates. That’s what we are. He will make me a cup of tea, do household chores, be a good father but that’s it. We go to our separate rooms every evening. He treats me well, and is kind, generous and supportive. It makes it harder to leave as I am not being treated badly. But then I am being treated badly because he ignores my desires and needs. He is now saying I refused sex because when he offered it, I said what’s the point anymore? And that I have given up. I didn’t even bother to argue with him He does not WANT to fuck you. Actively Avoids it. At the risk of his marriage and lifestyle. It would be easy to do it if he was neither here nor there, or just tired. This is different than that. You can't change how he feels. So it comes down to what are you going to do? If you both play your cards right, you might be able to have one of those occasional amicable partings where you are able to keep the most positive aspects of your bond with your friend, while seeking a partner elsewhere. It is interesting, even the story linked a while back here of the Jewish girl and her somewhat sickly husband where she and he both became quite okay with having sex outside the marriage but avoided each other but claimed to be in love! It is hard to find the logic and of course it is driving us crazy.
I have never shared this but in 2011, my W (conservative to the Nth degree) eventually caves to the restaurant owner where she was helping out a few nights per week. The affair went on for about a week as I had to obtain evidence so that it could not be disputed (I became a P.I. in very short order) before I told her that I knew. My point is that he is not handsome, he is vulgar and just plain uhhg yet she WANTED TO HAVE SEX! Then a patron, Old guy Bob with his swinging wife wanted her and she was disgusted ........then flattered! So back to Apocrypha's wisdom, they just don't want to have sex with us. But it is stimulating to be wanted by someone new and we can never again be someone new!
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sarah
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Post by sarah on Nov 5, 2017 14:48:20 GMT -5
apocrypha: I don’t know what I am going to do. I was grateful for any occasional scraps of sex I got. I am a counter refuser now. We have a good bond in every other respect. I have been with him for 22 years. I can’t contemplate a life without him. I want him to give me permission to look elsewhere but I am too scared to ask.
Chris2020: I think I have gone beyond that stage now. I don’t think I want sex with him anymore after being rejected so many times. Problem is that I tasted proper desire with someone else, and that made me temporarily happy but ultimately plunged me into further depression as it gave me a taste of what is no longer in my lfe. I can no longer think logically about this whole thing anymore.
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Post by Apocrypha on Nov 10, 2017 14:53:12 GMT -5
There is a, "yet to be sufficiently diagnosed" disconnect, lack of empathy or lack of understanding as to how important sex really is to a relationship. It is a mental scramble for us all, though this forum really helps with understanding the reality we are in. What evidence do you have that the lack of sex is a result of lack of empathy over "how important sex really is to a relationship" vs. the aversion being the result of not wanting to have a sexual relationship with you, for reasons? When people are into someone sexually, they have sex with them irrespective of what's important to their married relationship. Take an affair, for example. Here we have a person who carries the burden of significant risk to his or her marriage and its associated benefits, not to mention the emotional carnage. But people have sex, regardless of that because they want to. They desire it and seek it, even though having that sex might be detrimental to their relationship. People don't have sex because "it's important to a relationship". That's not hot. I go to the dentist because it's important to my dental health, not because I love it. But if I had a magic tooth paste that eliminated my need to visit the dentist, I'd be all over it. I go to the dentist the least amount possible while still meeting whatever threshold seems necessary to maintain health. The difference between these two positions changes everything. Once a person understands that this isn't some oblivious lack of awareness, etiquette, or empathy that can be taught if one's spouse smartens up and corrects himself, but is rather is the the normal result of how one's spouse FEELS about you - the scale of the problem becomes apparent for the monster wave that it is. You want to know what it's like - what your spouse could possibly be thinking? Think of someone you know who you enjoy (maybe) but who you do NOT want to have sex with. Maybe a coworker, or an extended family member (in law). Now. Imagine you are married to that person, feeling the way you feel now. And that person is angry at you, and threatening divorce if you don't have sex with them. Calling you a bad person, or uncaring. Imagine looking at that prospect for the rest of your life and deciding what to do.
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sarah
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Post by sarah on Nov 10, 2017 17:21:43 GMT -5
He said we would have sex tonight after I told him I would remarry only for sex this morning.
It’s late now and no sign of him. Why do I bother to get my hopes up? Surely I should know better by now
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Post by cagedadventurer on Nov 10, 2017 17:52:47 GMT -5
What evidence do you have that the lack of sex is a result of lack of empathy over "how important sex really is to a relationship" vs. the aversion being the result of not wanting to have a sexual relationship with you, for reasons? apocrypha - The evidence - it is so difficult to get enough truth from enough admitted refusers to adequately provide evidence I suppose. But in my years, I have discovered that I can open (personal) dialogue with almost anyone and this issue comes up. In almost every case, the couple screwed each other's brains out before the marriage and even some time into the marriage. No obvious sign that desire did not exist. So it would appear that the desire was there. But as time passes, comfort level grows, the lower libido weans from that desire until point of - well where we are with either duty sex, "meh" sex, or no sex. My evidence would be that many refusers will respond when they feel it all slipping away but it remains unimportant to them thus the duty sex and avoidance. I have seen my wife appear empathetic to my desire and need but I'd say really does not quite understand why I have the desire and need (she avoids close contact with most anyone). She admitted to not understanding that this was an ongoing need! - Crazy to me but she tries for my sake. I am here because I know this is not from desire, is not the sex I want and yes I agree, she would have sex with another who turned her on again. But maybe the evidence leans toward they "just lose interest and desire for us" when so many jump into bed with new partners. And eventually that new partner is of low interest as the cycle repeats - these are selfish controlling people. In closing, there are many who do not want to hurt their spouse but once married seem incapable of participating in intimacy and think it alright - unless shown clearly by oftentimes 3rd parties that it is not. Either way and to your point - the desire IS GONE and it ain't comin' back. My next post will be an analogy I typed up last week.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Nov 10, 2017 17:59:13 GMT -5
apocrypha: I don’t know what I am going to do. I was grateful for any occasional scraps of sex I got. I am a counter refuser now. We have a good bond in every other respect. I have been with him for 22 years. I can’t contemplate a life without him. I want him to give me permission to look elsewhere but I am too scared to ask. Chris2020: I think I have gone beyond that stage now. I don’t think I want sex with him anymore after being rejected so many times. Problem is that I tasted proper desire with someone else, and that made me temporarily happy but ultimately plunged me into further depression as it gave me a taste of what is no longer in my lfe. I can no longer think logically about this whole thing anymore.
Yea, I hear you. Though I want her to want me, I have gotten hopes up for many years now and let down - when would I learn? this does NOT change but we keep hoping it will! I was gone 3 days this week and returned Wednesday - I was disappointed she was home and I had to speak to her. I faked it but not too well. She just came home today at 4:30 and I had no interest in talking. I know I am easy pickin's for a new relationship - just even a gentle touch might clear all the fog.
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Post by hopingforachange on Nov 10, 2017 18:18:43 GMT -5
He said we would have sex tonight after I told him I would remarry only for sex this morning. It’s late now and no sign of him. Why do I bother to get my hopes up? Surely I should know better by now We all know that feeling all to well
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Post by h on Nov 10, 2017 18:42:18 GMT -5
He said we would have sex tonight after I told him I would remarry only for sex this morning. It’s late now and no sign of him. Why do I bother to get my hopes up? Surely I should know better by now We all know that feeling all to well Yes we do.
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