"But really, apart from their different individual perspectives, are there any actual significant differences in the two stories ?"
Just a crazy thought from here in hypothetical fun land:
Add these details: By day, everything is flowers and walks in the park. Night after night, #1 sexually assaults #2.
Does # 2 still think "everything is great bar the sex?"
This should get interesting...
THIS is most of the reason why I don't even want to have sex with my avoidant spouse anymore. She makes me feel like I'm practically assaulting her as she "tolerates" having sex with me. No thanks. Not interested. But I'm also not interested in being celibate.
Brian, if she is that way, you can end your celibacy even if she doesn't.
There are guys I work with who's wives have stopped putting out. I know what bars they score at, I know about the VIP lounges at the strip clubs, I know about the adult classified ads, and I know I could get laid pretty quick if that was all I was looking for. It's not. I'm going to argue that I'm still tied for the title of the least successful philanderer on earth, but, only because I am selective.
Choose your path. If divorce is imminent, you might want to be careful not to muddy the waters.
Each situation requires honest and direct communication.
My girlfriend was the refuser and I begged her to be direct and talk to her now ex. She refused. He served her with divorce papers.
Years ago, if I could have done one thing differently about my messy marriage, I would be gently honest and direct.
A member messaged me to ask what I meant by "doing things differently."
I'll clarify... had I done things differently, I would have been persistent and gently "forced" the communication, clearly and honestly. It's very likely the divorce would have happened long before we had kids, etc.
Ironic, too. Today is the 20 year anniversary of the legalization of the marriage, quietly unrecognized by both of us (that said he's not home).
The marriage was doomed from the start. We have always been sexless. Always sucked at communicating with one another. We are a veritable mismatch.
"The capacity that people have to love... Where does it go?" -- Truly, Madly, Deeply
Post by allworkandnoplay on Aug 24, 2017 21:48:16 GMT -5
Great debate situation. However, I think the crux of the matter requires more information. What does "sexually avoidant" mean? What about "sexually demanding"? Does avoidant mean only wanting it a couple of times a week rather than every day? Does demanding mean they ask for it at least once a week, or maybe a few times a month when the other spouse only wants it once every few months?
The only prudent advice with this much information is to highly suggest both spouses open up and lay out their vision of what the sexual relationship should look like. Once that information is out further steps can be taken. It reminds me of that Annie Hall quote that was floating around a while back:
Alvy's analyst: How often do you sleep together? Alvy: Hardly ever, maybe three times a week.
Annie's analyst: Do you have sex often? Annie: Constantly, I'd say three times a week.
“Their lives were ruined, he thought; ruined by the fundamental error of their matrimonial union: that of having based a permanent contract on a temporary feeling.”
If the avoidant spouse does not want to have sex, they should not have sex, but in doing so they relinquish their right to be a sole supplier of sex to their spouse.
My advice would be for them to open up the marriage, and set some ground rules. Odds are that the avoidant one would balk at the idea, in which case the only ground rules for the other is to not get caught.
Very well said ironhamster Your post seems to me PRACTICAL ADVICE if not EXPERIENCE TALKING . . .
Here we have 2 Mismatched Libidos. Assuming this is the only problem - meaning the mismatch in libido is due to the refusing spouse not having issues with the relationship and the low libido is a result of that. This is a big assumption.
Anyhow, yes, if the libidos are mismatched then the marriage needs to be opened up.
I had a friend and his Grandmother threw the horny Grandfather out of bed and got twin beds. Don't ask, don't tell.
Absolute fidelity and never ending frustration for both spouses . .. Meh, no thank-you.
Last Edit: Aug 25, 2017 8:53:31 GMT -5 by McRoomMate
To the refuser I would say: Lay your cards on the table, be honest and tell your spouse that you don't like and/ or want sex with them. Allow them to seek sex elsewhere. If you can't provide your spouse with a basic biological need and you will deny the spouse seeking it elsewhere then you are a selfish pig and you have no right holding your spouse hostage. Yes this might blow up the marriage and the family unit but your marriage is already a lie and dishonest because you are avoidant and not honest.
To the refused I would say: Lay your cards on the table, be honest and advocate for yourself. Your spouse is being selfish and it's time for you to be selfish for yourself. Let them know that celibacy is no longer an option and they can either start fucking You enthusiastically in a meaningful intimate manner, which may mean seeing a therapist, counselor or sex therapist OR you will either be fucking someone else or seek a divorce. An avoidant non answer will result in the refused's choice.
Wow wow wow ! ! !
Concise point absolutely well made. Clear as a bell. Very nice to read.