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Post by takestwototango on Oct 10, 2017 10:58:56 GMT -5
Today I decided I cannot love her anymore. I choose to not continue living this way anymore. Its not a healthy way to be. Where every waking thought you have about them, about you and them, just comsumes you. You realize they dont even see you. Really see you, let alone feel you. We are just two strangers under the same roof trying to make the best of it. This quote breaks my heart. I feel the same way. How many times do you have to tell your partner that you are HURTING from lack of affection without a single effort made to fix the problem before you accept it cannot be changed? I just don't know how to stop trying..... how to stop hoping. workingonit, boy do I know that feeling! I go back and forth between wanting to try/hoping for change to just wanting to get out of this hell hole. It is not good mentally. Half the time I can feel myself on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I was so close to that a few months ago. I became suicidal and cried every night. So miserable. I don't know how much longer I can go on. I have told him how much it hurts and he just doesn't get it, doesn't try. I don't know if it can be fixed. I am going to try to set up counseling this week for myself, maybe for both of us, but I have to go for myself right now. I do not want to get in that dark place again.
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Post by DryCreek on Oct 10, 2017 11:36:01 GMT -5
TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo, I get not being happy with the state of things. And the likelihood that she's doing this simply to avoid the consequences, not because the desire is genuine. Certainly, the behavior in between sex shows you whether there's a real attitude shift or it's just a to-do checklist for her. You know your own situation best, but I have to ask if you think there's any prospect the emotional bond could be revived if she continues to "fake it till she makes it"? A huge part of that will be whether she is trying to bond beyond the bedroom. After all, "it's not all about sex". Of course, your attitude will feed into that dynamic as well, but could you support it if she was trying or are you burned out? If you're psychologically / emotionally past the point-of-no-return, it's probably prudent to have that discussion instead of letting her think she's turning things around by going through the motions without the emotions.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Oct 11, 2017 3:59:27 GMT -5
DC the man with the eternal wisdom! Very perceptive and insightful observations considering the dearth of details I gave. I think she is genuinely "trying" from the pov of making things better even if she is going through the motions without the emotions. The latter part is what makes it manipulative for me. Can we fake it till we make it? Again another interesting question. I thought I was ready to become the refuser but the sex turned out to be really great even if the connection seems weak. The whole time this was going on the thought that kept popping in my head is that she somehow remembered how much she enjoys sex again. This makes everything very confusing for me. The sex is great, she seems to want it, things should be looking up, right? So the insight I had is that the weak connection is not emanating from her but from me. I seemed to have checked out but not enough to not want sex. Am I being selfish? It does seem that way at times. My current thinking is that if she genuinely desires sex, I am not going to refuse. By genuinely I mean that there is no agenda that she is doing it to improve the relationship other than sheer desire to have sex. If thats the case then yes I think there is value in faking it till we make it. And it is prudent to have this discussion. My next question to her would be what has caused this "reawakening" of desire. I do suppose this could be considered progress. A funny (or sad) side note. Oldest daughter is home from universiy today. They went shopping and then mom made her rush home because we had an appointment with a lawyer. My daughter asked my wife if we were signing divorce papers. That of course is not the case. The lawyer visit was related to a property transaction. Funny how perceptive kids are though even when she's been away at college. TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo , I get not being happy with the state of things. And the likelihood that she's doing this simply to avoid the consequences, not because the desire is genuine. Certainly, the behavior in between sex shows you whether there's a real attitude shift or it's just a to-do checklist for her. You know your own situation best, but I have to ask if you think there's any prospect the emotional bond could be revived if she continues to "fake it till she makes it"? A huge part of that will be whether she is trying to bond beyond the bedroom. After all, "it's not all about sex". Of course, your attitude will feed into that dynamic as well, but could you support it if she was trying or are you burned out? If you're psychologically / emotionally past the point-of-no-return, it's probably prudent to have that discussion instead of letting her think she's turning things around by going through the motions without the emotions.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Oct 11, 2017 4:31:21 GMT -5
I do feel like there is something she is not telling me. Im long in the tooth enough to trust these instincts. It bothers me that she would withold something when she clearly sees Im not myself. Is she afraid to hurt me or is she ridden with guilt or shame? I prepare myself to receive that truth bomb some day. I have told her that I feel she is holding something back. She keeps a good poker face. Ive considered the possibility that she's had an affair or flirtation of some sort recently. At this point I dont think it would devastate me but instead bring some measure of relief that I am not just imagining things. Of course if we do get to that point I also understand that the relationship will be heading in a completely different direction. TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo first I'm really sorry to read your story. I think you are right in most recent thoughts - it would just be nice to know the truth because as usual for most of us here we give our love and intimacy to our partners (or ex partners) and don't receive it in return - or at best only on their terms. I bared my soul to my stbx around 10 years ago over the lack of reciprocated desire /touch plain anything remotely resembling a relationship and got pretty well nowhere. 4 years ago I asked for divorce and was promised counselling and efforts in every way to turn things around. I didn't get pity sex or reset sex and didn't get any of the other promises either and then felt so low that I lacked the strength to start the divorce process. Lived in limbo for a long time perhaps blaming myself for it all.Baring it all on here really helped the healing process (or in my case the moving forward process) I hope you get to achieve the topic of the thread - peace love and harmony
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Oct 11, 2017 4:44:54 GMT -5
Im 46. But emotionally, mentally, more like mid 30's. I do feel I have great sexual energy. I feel like a teenager in that department. Its a bitter disappointment to not be able to direct that energy towards my relationship. I am not as pessimistic as you. While I agree I could be facing decades with a roommate, it wont be with resentment. Life has taught me that our time here is too short for that. I see this as a chapter I need to get through. But when its done, I intend to continue fucking for as long as I can. Whether thats with W or not is the question that will be answered in the next chaper of Adventures of Daddeeo. When that time comes, I hope not to be here as much other than to say hello to the friends I have made and of course to provide the occasional encouragement to others who may not be as far along in their journey. "Mutually reaching the conclusion that we'd be screwed financially nevermind the emotional turmoil. I suggested we just be roommates and try to be respectful of one another. " Have you talked to a lawyer to lean the financial truth? How old are you? If you are in your 50s, you could be facing another 30 years of an intimacy less existence with a roommate you resent and with self confidence in the toilet. Are the material things worth that kind of trade off?
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Nov 22, 2017 12:35:14 GMT -5
Hello ILIASM diary, my old friend.
I've been meaning to post an update for awhile. I just wasn't sure what to say or how to say it. I still feel that way but I need to get some things off my chest now. I wouldn't be surprised if this post lacks coherency as I feel myself struggling with that emotionally, but not so much in my thoughts. I feel that my thoughts are a little more lucid. I want to think that having disconnected a little from the relationship and keeping some boundaries has allowed for that.
There is so much that I want to write but will try to be succinct and efficient. (yeah right!)
I have spent a lot of time processing thoughts, feelings, and the state of my marriage these past few weeks. The relationship seemed to have stabilized a little, which is a good thing. But at the same time all we were doing is kicking the can further down the road. In other words, we have been avoidant of the big elephant in the room that is our relationship. On my end I have been distant. There has been the occasional sex, really good sex in fact, to the point where Im technically no longer SM this year. But the underlying context of the relationship is still tense.
On her end, I think there is confusion. I take full responsibility there and I don't intentionally plan on being that way for the long term. There was some sex, at times very much like in the beginning of our relationship. And yet the in between time between sex was not much different than the recent state of the relationship. Suffice to say, that sex did not restore intimacy even if the sex was good. I even moved back to the marriage bed for about a week. But then I moved back out. I sleep better when I am not in the same bed. It doesn't feel "forced". But the real reason for leaving the bed again is that there are still issues with respecting boundaries. My wife is a strong woman. Very opinionated and very vocal. Which is fine. In fact, I admire those qualities. But at the same time, she can cross some lines and become hurtful and stubborn. Without going into details, I felt that she was not respecting these boundaries. So when I moved out of the bedroom she did not make a big fuss and probably understood at some level. But she still seems confused as to why I was being distant. Well I tried to explain how I felt.
I explained that I wanted distance to have some peace of mind. That I didn't appreciate her being angry and expressing that anger in an offensive manner. That I felt that the anger was not conducive to the kind of relationship that I thought we should be having. In so many words, I tried to be rational. I should have known better but I am not sure what other way I could have expressed myself. She became very upset of course and started yelling and expressing all the things she felt I did wrong and why she was justified in feeling the way she did. I did not argue her points. In fact I validated that it was ok to get frustrated with me at times. I am not perfect. But that I don't appreciate the insults and the score keeping.
A lot of things were said. Very raw but very transparent. I think that part of it was a good thing. I felt fine having the discussion because I did not have difficulty finding my words or framing the discussion so that it didn't go off in tangents. I feel that caught her by surprise and she was not comfortable with it. She seemed a little disoriented on how to react.
I am glad that we started talking about the relationship again, albeit in a rocky fashion. I suppose some of that is to be allowed when feelings are kept pent up. But I don't know where this leaves us. I expressed a desire to keep some peace and distance while we try to have a dialog. I told her I do not expect sex. That I no longer desire her like I once used to. I let her know that in my mind I've been weighing the balance of divorce vs marriage and that I conclude for the time being that we are too bound together emotionally, financially, and with kids to not try to have a serious discussion. And that was my preference. She was having none of it. She said she is tired of the discussions. She feels we never get anywhere.
So thats it. I feel like the ground has shifted an enormous amount but I am not sure in which direction. It seems like another nail in the coffin and at the same time, maybe it is a breakthrough in terms of communicating. I feel naive about the latter. I know I still love my wife, and I physically feel attracted to her. I now do not feel like having sex with her as much as I once did. I feel there is enough there on my end to keep trying. I am not sure about her, however. I feel I need to figure that part out. If there is no genuine desire on her end than there really is no point. She is ambiguous on this front. So I need to challenge her there. She says she is ready to call it quits, but then she acts like she's not. Or she'll say that she wants to work on things, but then a few days later will go on a rant against something I did or said that she was not happy with. The other thing that is more worrisome for me is that even if we break past the barrier of wanting to try to make it work, is wether we are capable given the difficulty we have communicating. I'll admit my faults, which is that I withdraw and I am not always as communicative as she would like. And she admits that she struggles when she is angry. But can we get past that? Thats my concern.
So there it is. Not very eloquent. Maybe not enough words to cover the many subtleties that shape the context. But in general, it captures the spirit of what Im feeling and where we are at.
[EDIT] P.S. On the SM front, she stated that she likes sex, she needs sex. She just didn't feel that it should be a default. She wanted to feel some wooing. I was caught off guard by her comments because I did not prompt her for that. At the same time, I am not sure how I feel about it. In some ways, its a relief to know that I was not crazy all those years. In other ways, I feel like she is saying she wants sex, just not with me (regardless of the reasons).
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Post by bballgirl on Nov 22, 2017 13:44:19 GMT -5
Hang in there. It's not easy and it seems like there are still a lot of things that need to be figured out for you and your wife in your relationship but she has to be willing to talk and not get angry. Marriage is about compromise and relationships are work and not easy - it takes effort by both to make things good.
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Post by workingonit on Nov 22, 2017 14:15:59 GMT -5
@daddeo sounds like movement, which IS good. SM is such a state of stuckness. Kudos to you for communicating well!
You raise such an interesting thought about sex vs intimacy though. Lots to ponder....
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Post by M2G on Nov 23, 2017 6:48:40 GMT -5
..I feel like she is saying she wants sex, just not with me (regardless of the reasons). I'm feeling we are sort of parallel with the efforts, except on my end relationship is great, and sex is slow moving IE: not happening yet. One thing I would caution, is to not project on her the feelings that you have, about what she's thinking and what her mindset may be. If something bothers you (and this one I think is a huge issue) you need to address it with your W head on. I find that keeping this stuff to yourself makes the issue grow and grow and grow in one's mind, until the gnat becomes an elephant. Sometimes dealing with such issues head on reveals that all of your worry was for nothing, or that you really do have a giant chasm to overcome that can't be crossed by worrying about it. My best thoughts are with you.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Nov 23, 2017 11:29:14 GMT -5
Thnaks for your thoughts M2G. Same to you
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jan 28, 2018 23:58:52 GMT -5
Howdy.
Have not been on in awhile. Not much has changed sexwise. We have had sex on occasion. Ive tried to enjoy it. I dont believe she does. It seems when we do it, it is perfunctionary, Our connection is pretty much dead. So neither of us tries to initiate lately. I now understand that the relationship issues prevent us from enjoying sex. While there is some satisfaction in reaching this understanding, I feel more lost than ever. Even to the point of questioning if I can enjoy sex again with a different person. Im pretty sure I would. But the doubt is there.
The strange thing is I used to resent her for not wanting sex. Now I dont care anymore. Its a strange feeling that.
We are edging closer to the precipice that is divorce. She wants it. She keeps insisting on it. I dont want to even if I suppose it might be the right thing to do strictly speaking from a relationship perspective. We both deserve better. But I dont want to leave my kids. Maybe if they were older it would be easier. But I feel they still need me around.
And so it goes.
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Post by baza on Jan 29, 2018 0:47:05 GMT -5
Just read this update you posted today Brother TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo . Then went back to your opening story back in July 2017. It doesn't look like anything much has changed much, other than your missus attitude.* You may well prefer not to leave, but your missus could very easily take that choice out of your hands. It would, therefore, be the smart play for you (as previously suggested in your posts) to do the legal/exit strategy/support network/kids planning. You would not want to get blindsided. And you might be able to produce an amicable divorce were you both on the same page. *the main difference is that you believed back in July that she actually liked sex with you, and now you believe she doesn't.
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Post by saarinista on Jan 31, 2018 15:22:35 GMT -5
Howdy. Have not been on in awhile. Not much has changed sexwise. We have had sex on occasion. Ive tried to enjoy it. I dont believe she does. It seems when we do it, it is perfunctionary, Our connection is pretty much dead. So neither of us tries to initiate lately. I now understand that the relationship issues prevent us from enjoying sex. While there is some satisfaction in reaching this understanding, I feel more lost than ever. Even to the point of questioning if I can enjoy sex again with a different person. Im pretty sure I would. But the doubt is there. The strange thing is I used to resent her for not wanting sex. Now I dont care anymore. Its a strange feeling that. We are edging closer to the precipice that is divorce. She wants it. She keeps insisting on it. I dont want to even if I suppose it might be the right thing to do strictly speaking from a relationship perspective. We both deserve better. But I dont want to leave my kids. Maybe if they were older it would be easier. But I feel they still need me around. And so it goes. Change is difficult. And it usually takes time. The trick is to not miss the moment where change is the only answer. To do so may send you into a rut from which escape is even more difficult. :-(
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Mar 11, 2018 5:31:27 GMT -5
Laziness.
This is why I'm hesitant to put an escape plan together. Im not a lazy person by nature. But I am very laid back.
Or maybe its like someone else has mentioned on here, the pain of leaving is still greater than the pain of staying. I seem to be getting closer to that escape velocity however. I'm probably closer than I ever have been.
Happiness.
That deep happiness that comes from healthy relationships. Its missing. But also unhappiness fills its void. That unhappiness that exists within a dead relationship. I want to change this around. I dont want to be unhappy anymore. Its a heavy weight to carry around. Its tiring.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Mar 14, 2018 21:56:14 GMT -5
So more DARVO behavior this evening.
This episode is fairly civil. Im not getting too worked up about it.
But I want to give credit to this forum for helping me frame the behavior. It makes it a little easier to deal with when you can identify the patterns and not get caught off guard.
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