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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Oct 31, 2018 22:14:51 GMT -5
Are you detaching? What are you doing to detach? Ive found a lot of peace once I moved to detach emotionally. Anger seems like wasteful energy. But it leaves a void. Im moving towards more self-care, self-love (not what you are thinking perverts!), and working on me. This helps with not letting her rent too much headspace. I hope you are finding ways to be at peace. I did not ANNOUNCE the divorce until I had already talked to three lawyers and I knew which one I was going with. I had a plan with a timeline and I knew I was ready. Do not play your hand until you’ve drawn the full hand! Don’t go nuclear until you are ready for the fall out! For me, that's the hardest part, not going nuclear. She pushes me so hard. I have to really work at it And I've got about 8 more months to go.
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Post by baza on Oct 31, 2018 23:04:54 GMT -5
Just to re-wind a bit Brother TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo . Do you have your appropriate legal advice ? That, is the most harped on subject in here - and for good reason. Even in a 'no fault' jurisdiction it is very easy to shoot yourself in the foot through ignorance of your rights and obligations. Your preparations need to be meticulous - and even then this is an horrifically difficult thing to do so you want to stack the deck in your favour as far as you can. The body of your post reads like you are not fully prepared for divorce as an outcome. I'd counsel against having "the talk" / "ultimatum" (call it what you will) at this point. I would suggest you get your legal counsel....and among the questions, run these two divorce scenarios by them for comment Scenario #1 - the quickest way out. Scenario #2 - your preferred timetable Then, you can make an informed choice. That choice will include the staying option...(you may end up choosing to shelve the leaving option altogether in light of your legal advice)
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Nov 1, 2018 15:33:23 GMT -5
Indeed Im not fully prepared for divorce. The decision that Im done is still too raw and new. My heart has not adjusted. The exit strategy is half baked and not ready for execution. My kids will think Im abondoning ship and my lack of preparation will justify their perception. Thank you for the feedback. I like the questions for legal counsel The body of your post reads like you are not fully prepared for divorce as an outcome. I'd counsel against having "the talk" / "ultimatum" (call it what you will) at this point. I would suggest you get your legal counsel....and among the questions, run these two divorce scenarios by them for comment Scenario #1 - the quickest way out. Scenario #2 - your preferred timetable Then, you can make an informed choice. That choice will include the staying option...(you may end up choosing to shelve the leaving option altogether in light of your legal advice)
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Post by bballgirl on Nov 2, 2018 12:52:20 GMT -5
I did not ANNOUNCE the divorce until I had already talked to three lawyers and I knew which one I was going with. I had a plan with a timeline and I knew I was ready. Do not play your hand until you’ve drawn the full hand! Don’t go nuclear until you are ready for the fall out! For me, that's the hardest part, not going nuclear. She pushes me so hard. I have to really work at it And I've got about 8 more months to go. 8 months is doable keep your eye on the prize and play your cards smart. Everything will turn out good in the end! Hugs
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Post by sadkat on Nov 2, 2018 17:37:34 GMT -5
TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo- I know I’m late in my response. I’ve been traveling lots for work lately. It’s been a while since I’ve been able to spend time here. I feel for you. I understand what you’re going through and think you’ve received excellent advice already. I want to talk a little bit about loving someone versus being in love with someone. I think there’s a difference. If you’re in love, I’d think your partner would be feeding it with affection, intimacy, and sex. Without that, I believe you fall out of love. But you would continue to love your partner like you would a brother, sister, best friend. After all he/she is the parent of your children. There will always be a bond. I guess what I’m trying to get at is if you are waiting to stop loving your wife before you make a decision to leave, I don’t think it will happen. I struggled with this too for a long time. I love my husband but I’m no longer in love with him- haven’t been for years. That distinction has really helped me move forward. Individual counseling really does help- if you haven’t pursued that, maybe you should try a few sessions before moving forward with any other plans?
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Post by solodriver on Nov 2, 2018 20:36:20 GMT -5
For me, that's the hardest part, not going nuclear. She pushes me so hard. I have to really work at it And I've got about 8 more months to go. 8 months is doable keep your eye on the prize and play your cards smart. Everything will turn out good in the end! Hugs Thanks bballgirl. Your support means tons to me right now.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Nov 21, 2018 6:00:18 GMT -5
Finding peace.
Folks, I feel like my journey with this forum is coming to an end soon. Now do not despair, I dont plan on deleting my account as it might be the case that the posts might prove useful to others. I will also post an occasional update to let others know where I end up.
I came here looking for support and to understand why my partner has reduced sexual desire for me. Especially considering sex is of high priority for me. And now I think I am finaly getting some clarity. So much so that its overwhelming. Like sensory overload.
I have paid a high price for this clarity. I do have hope that I can recoup that investment however.
In pursuit of clarity and peace of mind, I distanced myself from my relationship to the point of killing any emotional intimacy that might have been left. In its place came apathy, neglect, resentment, contempt, distraction, avoidance, denial and a host of other destructive habits that fed on themselves like a pack of starving rabid hyenas feasting on a rotting carcass.
My first big revelation was acknowledging that my spouse has withdrawn emotionally and having good ideas of why that happened.
My next big revelation was understanding that I have spent 20 years in a relationship without a clue of how intimacy works and the role it plays in a relationship. I suppose we all enter relationships with little understanding. I dont know why it took me this long to figure it out.
Knowing what I know now, its very easy to understand the sexlessness in my situation. That doesnt make it any easier to bear or to address, but it gives me something important. A sense of direction. What one must do. And with that sene of direction comes hope. And when there is hope, all the destructive tendencies that are relationship killers dont stand a chance.
My marriage is on the brink. I have visited with lawyers and I find myself drafting separation agreements. My wife knows and has agreed that if this is what I want then she will not contest.
But I also came to the realization that I very much love my wife despite everything. She has given me a lot and I have struggled to show my appreciation. My relationship is worth fighting for. I dont say that as a platitude. I say that because its an important question that we must all ask ourselves and be honest with ourselves about. To be sure, there are many reasons not to stay in a relationship. Neglect, abuse, codependecy, personal safety, mental health and so forth. Only you can decide if a marriage is worth fighting for. Get help from a professional if you need to figure that out. But you have to be honest. Its not an easy question that much is true. One thing that helped me objectively think about this question is, if I had to do it all over again would I still choose W?. In my case, the answer is yes.
So where does that leave us? Well, I want to leave the door open to possibility. The possibility that our relationship can reboot and we can begin again with the benefit of hindsight.
But I cannot do that alone. I need W to step up as well. I can help her get there, but ultimately she needs to ante up as well.
So I find myself learning all the things I should have learned along the way. And I find myself working on me. My health, my self esteem, my anxieties amd shortcomings. Its very hard. The emotional swings day to day and even hour to hour take their toll. But I have hope.
Im doing what I can to see if we can rebuild the relationship. From my end, I feel confident that with the new clarity I can do what needs to be done. From her end, I do not know yet. We are still in a very raw process of facing realities. The initial prognosis is we are somewhat far apart. She is sceptical and has lost faith in me. And I understand that. But at the same time, I dont feel I have anything to prove. I cannot force her to have faith in me again. She will know if the changes I am making are meaningful to her. And I expect her to be honest with me about that.
I have made it clear to her what I would like. And I have asked her what she needs. So its a start.
Peace.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Nov 21, 2018 6:08:45 GMT -5
I forgot to add. In the process of discussions with my wife, she made it clear her first priority is the family, and she offered the opportunity to stay together for the kids. The underlying implication being we could have a dont ask dont tell policy. Something that a year ago would have been the ideal scenario for me. But I rejected that option. I want a real relationship with real effort There is irony here.
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Post by baza on Nov 21, 2018 17:48:40 GMT -5
It reads like your plan is.... - to sort your own shit out - present the best possible version of TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo to the world in general - see what (and who) that might attract That's a pretty good approach to take. You are probably going to find there is not much in the way of short term gratification in such an approach, but this is a longer term project and the outcomes will take a while to emerge. And, as long as you keep making your choices on a fully informed basis (which is desperately difficult to do at times) you cannot go too far wrong.
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Post by choosinghappy on Nov 21, 2018 21:17:52 GMT -5
I’m glad you’ve received clarity and direction and I wish you luck.
I’m not quite sure why that would mean you feel you need to leave this forum though... Everyone is on their own personal path/journey, and sharing yours, in whatever direction that may lead, would likely prove to be helpful to others.
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Post by bballgirl on Nov 22, 2018 18:23:16 GMT -5
I’m glad you have hope towards a better future with whatever the outcome will be. Nothing wrong with trying again and family is a great reason. I wish you all the best! Hugs
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Nov 22, 2018 18:56:10 GMT -5
I have nothing left to write. When I first came here, I felt like I could write forever. Many times, I held back. Now, zip. I dont have much to say anymore. I want to move on. I feel like I know what I need to do. Which is what Baza says. Sort my shit out. The sexlessness seems like the least of my worries at the present. Im amazed Ive been able to stay married as long as I have. I now realize I really did not understand intimacy. Full stop. I suspect that the good run of sex in my marriage was just raw physical attraction, desire, lust etc. But when the emotional intimacy is not there, you run on fumes. Throw in kids, bills, life, multiple cross country moves, and its a wonder we are still talking. I think if I were to summarize key moments in my journey it would be as follows. 1. Discovery of this forum from the ashes of its predecessor on EP. And starting to process my thoughts via writing. 2. Getting some intimacy relief via EAPs who were going through the same pain. This did wonders for my self esteem 3. Loss of resentment and acceptance of sexlessness 4. The light bulb went off in my head as to the why of sexlessness. W had emotionally withdrawn and accepted the practicality of the college plan 5. Realizing that I do not understand intimacy. This one I really feel stupid about. Sigh. 6. To be determined. Not sure where W and I end up. W wants a financial/parenting/family partnership. Im not so sure I want to be intimacy starved. I feel like Id rather be on my own. Im struggling with whether or not that is selfish after 20 years of marriage. All that said, if shit doesnt work out with W, Im not sure I have anything left in the tank for another LTR. Sure there will be flings here and there, but the last half dozen years or so have taken their toll on my heart. I obsessed over this relationship every single day for at least 6 years. Thats more than 2100 days and who knows how many hours, sleepless nights and tears. When you finally start to see the light at the end of the tunnel, you want to make a mad scramble to get out of the god forsaken hell hole and move on with your life. Coming back here is not only hard, but you no longer feel that kinship with the group, or maybe you see your chance to no longer be a member of "that club". Like I said, I will probably circle back to post the last few updates to close the story out. It only seems right. I’m glad you’ve received clarity and direction and I wish you luck. I’m not quite sure why that would mean you feel you need to leave this forum though... Everyone is on their own personal path/journey, and sharing yours, in whatever direction that may lead, would likely prove to be helpful to others.
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Post by sadkat on Nov 22, 2018 19:45:54 GMT -5
Daddeeo- it sounds like you still have plenty to say and I personally think you could still benefit from and provide support to all of us on this forum. The decision is definitely yours to make but know that you will be missed. Good Luck!
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Post by flounder on Nov 23, 2018 16:55:20 GMT -5
Good luck Contender. Please keep us posted. Your diary here has been excellent,and has led me to sort my own shit out. God speed brother.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on May 13, 2019 12:17:17 GMT -5
So Im still sorting my shit out. :-)
Its been awhile since I last wrote anything. And as I continue my journey, I decided to come back here and read through past entries. Doing so seems post-cathartic if such a thing is a thing.
Reading through the entries is like looking through a window into my emotional state at the time. If anything, Im disappointed that I didnt write more often, leaving me with a sense of too many gaps between posts.
But for posterity, I'll ramble on a bit on where my head is at now.
I was on the cusp of leaving. You can read a post or two ago how I reached that point. By then, I had a workable plan. I had a date set, had a place to go, had a network in place, had spoken to the lawyers, had in my mind what a separation agreement looked like.
Through this process of preparing to leave, I realized I didnt really want to leave and the leaving was more about survival, mentally surviving. But in my heart, I knew I very much still loved my wife and wanted to be with her despite the dysfunctionality of the relationship.
So I decided to state my case to my wife about what I wanted. That I wanted a relationship with intimacy and that I wanted to work towards that with her.
Well her response was lukewarm. Quite frankly, I dont think she trusted my intentions. In the emotional void of our relationship, she had found a sense of peace and wanted to raise the family in peace without the drama of a relationship. She had come to accept that reality. But I was persistent about our past, and the sentimental vacancy of a "college plan". She still felt "something" for me. And so we agreed to give it a chance.
In the month that followed that discussion we had sex almost everyday. Before work, after work, during the day, in the morning. Like we were teenagers.
That was the honeymoon period. In the ensuing time, it has been up and down. We have had some difficult conversations. But one thing that has changed is I have forced the conversation, albeit in opportunistic ways.
Looking back a few years, instead of withdrawing and detaching, I should have forced the conversation awhile back. Leaving the bedroom hurt us both. I now know that it hurt her a lot and caused an unbelievable amount of resentment that we are still working through. Yet in hindsight, I also recognize that if I hadnt left, the lightbulb might have never come on for me. I might not have ever reached clarity about the true nature of our relationship.
I now see that we both sabotaged the emotional intimacy of the relationship in our own ways. She with her communication style, and me with my avoidant style. Textbook four horseman-like symptoms. While the void of emotional intimacy did not affect my libido or my desire for her, it almost killed her libido. It killed her desire to fight for the relationship. In short, over the past several years her emotional needs were going unmet. I was not able to full on acknowledge that.
So where does that leave us today? We are still pushing through. There is still some sex, but it feels different. Not good or bad different, just different. Our biggest obstacle is coming to terms with the years of relationship neglect. She grew accustomed to that dynamic in our relationship and became comfortable with it. So making headway into new territory can be uncomfortable.
What is working for us is that we still love each other and we both see the benefit of raising the family in a loving relationship as opposed to a coparenting one.
Admittedly, it feels that it is I doing most of the heavy lifting at times. It is not easy. But its definitley worth the effort to he able to fall asleep with her by my side, or to kiss her, and hug her, and just know that we are "together". We both work on spending time with one another, making an effort to feel connected with phone calls, text, or touch. Using these moments to rebuild the emotional intimacy.
Talking is difficult for her. But Ive learned not to push it. She doesnt enjoy conversations forced on her. So Ive learned to be opportunistic and find those moments that work for both of us. I think it will be this way for awhile until we get past the "relationship trauma" and have rebuilt some more closeness.
In the mean time, I continue to work on myself. There is a lot of work left to be done.
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