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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Oct 30, 2018 21:47:57 GMT -5
I need to get some shit off my chest.
So the good is that since sex has been taken off the table, a lot of the resentment has gone away.
And without resentment, a lot of clarity and relationship processing has come. Ive been journalling to try and organize my thoughts.
Things have been relatively calm at home. We've been good roomates. But I have also been watching her, observing her behavior with respect to the relationship.
Essentially, Ive been looking for openings to engage with her on the relationship. Something right? Throw me a bone.
Well, there has been zip. Its essentially every man for themselves. We did have a nice long drive together. We had lunch. We went shopping. We even slept in the same bed and cuddled one night. But not a word about the relationship. The next day, we went back to roommate status
Organizing my thoughts and observations, I have come to the conclusion that we are done.
Pause.
I can see where the wheels have come off, I can see what probably needs to happen to have a fighting chance. Its a clarity that has been missing for so long. But there are layers upon layers of resentment built up over the years. I used to wonder why she was so angry. And now its clear to me
We both need to own our own shit, and fix it. Im ready to do that. But the big reveal for me is that she isnt ready and probably never will be. She will never take accountability. This is not new. I have known this about her since I met her.
I feel like no amount of talking, therapy, or what have you will make her own her shit. Having accepted that, I just feel like running out the front door and getting the hell out of dodge.
I now need to put all my emotional energy into detaching and putting the exit plan together. Then set a runway for that exit. I have a date in mind. Much more accelerated than my previous 3-5 year plan. But I need time to execute on the exit.
I'm fucking devastated. Because despite it all, Im still in love with her.
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Post by javba on Oct 30, 2018 22:24:29 GMT -5
I need to get some shit off my chest. So the good is that since sex has been taken off the table, a lot of the resentment has gone away. And without resentment, a lot of clarity and relationship processing has come. Ive been journalling to try and organize my thoughts. Things have been relatively calm at home. We've been good roomates. But I have also been watching her, observing her behavior with respect to the relationship. Essentially, Ive been looking for openings to engage with her on the relationship. Something right? Throw me a bone. Well, there has been zip. Its essentially every man for themselves. We did have a nice long drive together. We had lunch. We went shopping. We even slept in the same bed and cuddled one night. But not a word about the relationship. The next day, we went back to roommate status Organizing my thoughts and observations, I have come to the conclusion that we are done. Pause. I can see where the wheels have come off, I can see what probably needs to happen to have a fighting chance. Its a clarity that has been missing for so long. But there are layers upon layers of resentment built up over the years. I used to wonder why she was so angry. And now its clear to me We both need to own our own shit, and fix it. Im ready to do that. But the big reveal for me is that she isnt ready and probably never will be. She will never take accountability. This is not new. I have known this about her since I met her. I feel like no amount of talking, therapy, or what have you will make her own her shit. Having accepted that, I just feel like running out the front door and getting the hell out of dodge. I now need to put all my emotional energy into detaching and putting the exit plan together. Then set a runway for that exit. I have a date in mind. Much accelerated than my previous 3-5 year plan. But I need time to execute on the exit. I'm fucking devastated. Because despite it all, Im still in love with her. Daddeeo Some people will not be accountable because they were never wrong in the first place, that's the mind set I feel you're dealing with. It's going to be hard as the deadlines approach in your action plan because you love her. Personally were it not for the forced celibacy I have a great roommate. In the end I (& you) have to decide, are we going to be the change we wish to see, cause this sexlessness will not change. Godspeed 👍🏽 pls write if you want to bounce off ideas. Yes the tension and resentment fades once your mind views the marriage as a shop that's closed. But like my spouse says, you're not angry anymore you're indifferent.
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Post by javba on Oct 30, 2018 22:31:31 GMT -5
That's the thing these wives are saints We're sinners. Counseling don't change what you don't wanna change.
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Post by baza on Oct 31, 2018 0:38:04 GMT -5
The good news here Brother TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo is that "accountability" and "working your own shit out" is common to both your missus - and you. So if you missus has chosen to drop the ball in these disciplines that's her prerogative. Your ability to continue your "shit sorting" and your being accountable remains unaffected ... and you can hunt along your part of the process independent of what she does/doesn't do.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 3:59:47 GMT -5
I need to get some shit off my chest. So the good is that since sex has been taken off the table, a lot of the resentment has gone away. And without resentment, a lot of clarity and relationship processing has come. Ive been journalling to try and organize my thoughts. Things have been relatively calm at home. We've been good roomates. But I have also been watching her, observing her behavior with respect to the relationship. Essentially, Ive been looking for openings to engage with her on the relationship. Something right? Throw me a bone. Well, there has been zip. Its essentially every man for themselves. We did have a nice long drive together. We had lunch. We went shopping. We even slept in the same bed and cuddled one night. But not a word about the relationship. The next day, we went back to roommate status Organizing my thoughts and observations, I have come to the conclusion that we are done. Pause. I can see where the wheels have come off, I can see what probably needs to happen to have a fighting chance. Its a clarity that has been missing for so long. But there are layers upon layers of resentment built up over the years. I used to wonder why she was so angry. And now its clear to me We both need to own our own shit, and fix it. Im ready to do that. But the big reveal for me is that she isnt ready and probably never will be. She will never take accountability. This is not new. I have known this about her since I met her. I feel like no amount of talking, therapy, or what have you will make her own her shit. Having accepted that, I just feel like running out the front door and getting the hell out of dodge. I now need to put all my emotional energy into detaching and putting the exit plan together. Then set a runway for that exit. I have a date in mind. Much more accelerated than my previous 3-5 year plan. But I need time to execute on the exit. I'm fucking devastated. Because despite it all, Im still in love with her. Have you directly tried to have the conversation with her yet where you say where your head is at? Most people don't want to face owning their own shit unless there is a reason to do so that is more attractive than pretending things are fine. Just because your timing is now doesn't mean hers is. Her not giving you an opening could mean she doesn't care - but it could also mean that she's scared shitless of a relationship conversation that could throw her life into disarray and has a fair chance of leaving her alone. There is no downside to scheduling a quiet time to talk with her and giving her the chance (and time) to respond herself about what she thinks about the relationship. That way there is no lingering doubt as to what you need to do - work together to fix it or mutually decide that leaving is the better option. It is possible that she does indeed resent the hell out of you. It is also possible that she is also in love with you. The two aren't contradictory. And if she hears you taking your own responsibility for your part of the mess, that might make her feel safer about admitting her own shortcomings. Don't observe and draw conclusions. The chances that those conclusions are wrong are too high. Tell her explicitly - that you are in love with her and need her to be with you, that you are hurt enough to consider cheating, that you are hurt enough to call it quits, that you are sorry for any pain you have caused her and that if there is more that you are unaware of, to please tell you so you can try to fix yourself - for this marriage or the next. And give her the space and time to respond - meaning it might be a followup talk a week later. She might not even know how she feels because she may have been running away from her own feelings and fears. And she might have a ton of bricks to hit you with about how you have hurt her that you are clueless about. The conversation will hurt like hell. But you are both already hurting like hell. Knowing where her head is at rather than assuming is what will really allow you to know how to move forward without any nagging doubts. Do it BECAUSE you love her.
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Post by flounder on Oct 31, 2018 5:20:45 GMT -5
I need to get some shit off my chest. So the good is that since sex has been taken off the table, a lot of the resentment has gone away. And without resentment, a lot of clarity and relationship processing has come. Ive been journalling to try and organize my thoughts. Things have been relatively calm at home. We've been good roomates. But I have also been watching her, observing her behavior with respect to the relationship. Essentially, Ive been looking for openings to engage with her on the relationship. Something right? Throw me a bone. Well, there has been zip. Its essentially every man for themselves. We did have a nice long drive together. We had lunch. We went shopping. We even slept in the same bed and cuddled one night. But not a word about the relationship. The next day, we went back to roommate status Organizing my thoughts and observations, I have come to the conclusion that we are done. Pause. I can see where the wheels have come off, I can see what probably needs to happen to have a fighting chance. Its a clarity that has been missing for so long. But there are layers upon layers of resentment built up over the years. I used to wonder why she was so angry. And now its clear to me We both need to own our own shit, and fix it. Im ready to do that. But the big reveal for me is that she isnt ready and probably never will be. She will never take accountability. This is not new. I have known this about her since I met her. I feel like no amount of talking, therapy, or what have you will make her own her shit. Having accepted that, I just feel like running out the front door and getting the hell out of dodge. I now need to put all my emotional energy into detaching and putting the exit plan together. Then set a runway for that exit. I have a date in mind. Much more accelerated than my previous 3-5 year plan. But I need time to execute on the exit. I'm fucking devastated. Because despite it all, Im still in love with her. Have you directly tried to have the conversation with her yet where you say where your head is at? Most people don't want to face owning their own shit unless there is a reason to do so that is more attractive than pretending things are fine. Just because your timing is now doesn't mean hers is. Her not giving you an opening could mean she doesn't care - but it could also mean that she's scared shitless of a relationship conversation that could throw her life into disarray and has a fair chance of leaving her alone. There is no downside to scheduling a quiet time to talk with her and giving her the chance (and time) to respond herself about what she thinks about the relationship. That way there is no lingering doubt as to what you need to do - work together to fix it or mutually decide that leaving is the better option. It is possible that she does indeed resent the hell out of you. It is also possible that she is also in love with you. The two aren't contradictory. And if she hears you taking your own responsibility for your part of the mess, that might make her feel safer about admitting her own shortcomings. Don't observe and draw conclusions. The chances that those conclusions are wrong are too high. Tell her explicitly - that you are in love with her and need her to be with you, that you are hurt enough to consider cheating, that you are hurt enough to call it quits, that you are sorry for any pain you have caused her and that if there is more that you are unaware of, to please tell you so you can try to fix yourself - for this marriage or the next. And give her the space and time to respond - meaning it might be a followup talk a week later. She might not even know how she feels because she may have been running away from her own feelings and fears. And she might have a ton of bricks to hit you with about how you have hurt her that you are clueless about. The conversation will hurt like hell. But you are both already hurting like hell. Knowing where her head is at rather than assuming is what will really allow you to know how to move forward without any nagging doubts. Do it BECAUSE you love her. Excellent advice here. Ripping the proverbial band aid off.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Oct 31, 2018 6:33:36 GMT -5
Thank you all for taking the time to write.
I suppose it is time to schedule a conversation. One different than what I was planning. That is ripping the band aid off vs further dissecting the relationship.
Knowing my wife like I do, I suppose I already know how it might go down.
She will say things like why now? Why after all this time. She will say things like, shes moved on and we are coparenting now. That we should focus on that.
Its not just her apathy that has led me to conclusions. Its little things she's said and done. I did want to have a "TALK" with her about the relationship, about "US". I would have preferred that it be organic. That to me would have been a big signal. That she wants to have the discussion too. But I know that she is not "there" and I suspect she never will be. Its like Javba says, some people dont want to believe they are wrong. I dont need to have a conversation to know that. Ive known for awhile that my wife is not "there". What is new, is this feeling that she never will be. She is content with how things are for HER. 3 years ago, she started a new job after being SAHM for 15 years. She is doing great at her job. Tremendous job satisfaction and perks. She has gained a whole new circle of friends from her job that also feeds her satisfaction. It feels like she is moving on. At times it feels like the relationship holds her back. Not from any professional advancement but just life satisfaction.
Something has changed in me where I no longer feel like living with her under one roof just to coparent. To be a couple in name only. I feel more selfish now, that I want more for me too.
Its tough to have the discussion at this time. Her mom has had surgery and my wife is overseas helping her. This situation will be this way for a few weeks. Perhaps then it will be time to rip the band aid off.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Oct 31, 2018 10:13:26 GMT -5
This is spot on. Regardless of her action/inaction, I need to sort my shit out. It seems to me that sorting my shit out provides the highest return on emotional investment moving forward not dwelling on the past or dissecting the intricacies of where things went wrong. I feel that I have now checked that box. Dont get me wrong. Im all for communication and having talks. I just dont see how this can work if Im the only one "talking". To me if the talks happen, they have to be organic and not forced. Tell me Im wrong. The good news here Brother TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo is that "accountability" and "working your own shit out" is common to both your missus - and you. So if you missus has chosen to drop the ball in these disciplines that's her prerogative. Your ability to continue your "shit sorting" and your being accountable remains unaffected ... and you can hunt along your part of the process independent of what she does/doesn't do.Â
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Post by workingonit on Oct 31, 2018 10:14:59 GMT -5
I agree with @shynjdude here. It is time for a very direct and explicit conversation. As long as you can still say you are in love with her you spund willing to so the work. You do not know what she would be willing to do if she knows how far gone you are. You may he surprised. But you have nothing to lose with brutal honesty at this point.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 10:32:07 GMT -5
TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo wrote "To me if the talks happen, they have to be organic and not forced. Tell me Im wrong." IMHO, they will never happen until you force them. If your wife refuses to talk with you while knowing....and I stress KNOWING...that the marriage is on the line, then you know you did everything. As a person who has run away from confrontation most of my life, I know how hard it is to do this. But you have to back her into a corner of addressing the issues honestly - or divorce. That won't happen organically. With luck, care, tears and honesty, you have a shot. No matter what happens you will have clarity, which is what we all need. If she no longer wants you because she no longer loves you, it will be easier to move on to the next phase of your life.
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Post by choosinghappy on Oct 31, 2018 10:51:48 GMT -5
@daddeo wanting more for yourself than a “marriage” where all you (possibly) are to her is a co-parent is NOT selfish.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Oct 31, 2018 16:20:51 GMT -5
PREAMBLE: Im not even sure how I wrote this on a busy day with wife out of town, me heading downtown for meetings and still making it home on time for halloween with the kids and dinner. But here goes Agree with those that say to force the discussion. My concern is with forcing the discussion prematurely. While I am done emotionally, I am nowhere ready to pull the divorce card, in practice. I have not yet met with lawyers. The support network is just coming together. I dont have any idea what I would tell the kids if push came to shove. Wouldnt have a place to live if I had to move out. And on and on. Is there a rule that says if you decide you are done that you have to say you are done as soon as possible? I am not even sure what to say or how I would say it. I would like to have these talking points nailed down when we have the talk. To be clear, Im not interested in fixing the marriage. Too much toxicity and resentment on both sides. To me its, either we reboot (we may or may not succeed) or we divorce. My biggest issue is that if we do have the talk NOW and the net result is divorce, Im looking aAT LEAST 6-9 months if not more of living together in these conditions which in the best of cases day to day is awkward and hopefully doesnt get downright ugly (hope is not a strategy!). That is not a desired outcome. I did think about moving out in January. But its too soon. My desired outcome is that if we did decide to divorce, Id have an exit strategy ready to pull the trigger on. That is, minimize the time between the decision to divorce and the actual physical eject from the marriage. Am I being dishonest? I don't know. Y'all can tell me. I dont feel like it. As it is, we are living the roommate and coparenting situation save for the rare cuddle or handholding. For all I know, she could be plotting an exit of her own. More likely she is happy with the appearance of marriage. It lets her keep her job without need of a babysitter, lifestyle, and no stigma of single middle aged mom with 4 kids. In negotiations, there is a tactic that you get the best deals when you are ready to walk away from the table, I am not yet logistically ready to walk away from the table. "Darko Dan" (aka Dan) covered this hold your cards close strategy, under a different context. I hope Dan doesnt feel Im taking his comments too far out of context. To quote him (since I couldnt link the post on mobile) ------start quote "If I may paraphrase: "don't shoot holes in the boat you are planning to sail in for a while yet." ---end And then he goes on further below... ----start quote "I have yet to see a case of gaining tactical advantage by being upfront with someone that you are about to vote them out. For one: it gives them an opportunity to mess things up. Also: for their own benefit, it shortens the time they worry. I'd summarize: "the blindside is the kindest cut." ---end
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Post by bballgirl on Oct 31, 2018 17:53:11 GMT -5
I did not ANNOUNCE the divorce until I had already talked to three lawyers and I knew which one I was going with. I had a plan with a timeline and I knew I was ready.
Do not play your hand until you’ve drawn the full hand!
Don’t go nuclear until you are ready for the fall out!
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 31, 2018 19:36:16 GMT -5
Happy Halloween! perhaps this is a good time for self clarity? I remember appreciating every major or minor reinforcement that I was making the best decision. The best decision for myself and the whole family.
Perhaps another major tipping point? Something you where not expecting? Will help clarify your decision? Then their will be 'the little things that really mean a lot". Things that are vital to a couple in a marriage ,that get avoided and ignored under the name of " family; or tradition, or because "that's the way he/she wants it?" Things that could bring you or the family , much more joy doing or experience with someone else done YOUR way? Someone who agrees with you and knows the importance of being a couple? Or you can find joy in these things alone?
Just more mental support, things to journal,and fall back on in the future, to reinforce that you made a good selfish decision.
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Post by solodriver on Oct 31, 2018 21:20:11 GMT -5
I did not ANNOUNCE the divorce until I had already talked to three lawyers and I knew which one I was going with. I had a plan with a timeline and I knew I was ready. Do not play your hand until you’ve drawn the full hand! Don’t go nuclear until you are ready for the fall out! For me, that's the hardest part, not going nuclear. She pushes me so hard. I have to really work at it And I've got about 8 more months to go.
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