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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2017 22:44:51 GMT -5
I haven't posted her before so go easy on me. It is hard to ask the obvious. But isn't someone who constantly declines sex rejecting their partner as a lover and just staying with them selfishly. Doesn't that give the reflected partner the right to find another lover ? I can't help thinking that a lot of those who decline sex are having or would possibly have sex with someone else ? Some of the comments sound as if people just resign themselves to what is awful and very unfair treatment. The pain of suffering that constant rejection is crazy. I have felt that pain and anguish for more than ten years, since I was in my twenties and married. I have always been a very physical guy and had no problems making loads of great friends. Now though I am "married" I feel like an underclass, trapped, deceived, rejected and unknown to the world. I worry that one can over think it, not see the woods for the trees - surely a partner who declines sex constantly is just rejecting you pure and simple. Wouldn't it make sense to start spending time around other people, relax a bit and make a few friends ? It is interesting that everyone who comes here looking for answers speculate their partner has a problem - low libido, medical/mental, asexual, gay, drug/porn... or some other addiction, etc, but the one thing they can't consider is that their spouse is having sex with other people and basically just doesn't want to have sex with you. It seems like a taboo subject here. And more than once it has turned out true and the person is always devastated. I have a thought on this, always presume they are getting their needs met somewhere. From that you start to think reasons don't matter.
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Post by baza on Jul 3, 2017 0:18:56 GMT -5
Brother @thecelt makes a reasonable point.
In a *normal* situation, if a spouse suddenly cuts you off sexually, basic logic would suggest that they are probably rooting someone else. All I'd note is that stories seen in here are not what I'd call *normal*.
Here's the thing though.
The problems as seen in story after story after story in here, is NOT what your spouse may or may not be doing outside the marriage.
The problem IS what they are NOT doing within the marriage.
"Why" they are behaving in such a manner is, as Brother @thecelt notes, something that doesn't really matter.
In a scenario where your spouse is rooting the post person, and you discover this and manage to stop that behaviour, it does NOT mean that now, your spouse is going to return to rooting you.
Further, whatever refuser spouse "why" you might be able to fix / stop / halt will NOT result in them suddenly wanting to root you. Your refuser spouse is pretty much going to keep doing whatever they want to do - or not do. And doing you is not what they want to do.
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Post by lifeinwoodinville on Jul 3, 2017 1:55:44 GMT -5
I haven't posted her before so go easy on me. It is hard to ask the obvious. But isn't someone who constantly declines sex rejecting their partner as a lover and just staying with them selfishly. Doesn't that give the reflected partner the right to find another lover ? I can't help thinking that a lot of those who decline sex are having or would possibly have sex with someone else ? Some of the comments sound as if people just resign themselves to what is awful and very unfair treatment. The pain of suffering that constant rejection is crazy. I have felt that pain and anguish for more than ten years, since I was in my twenties and married. I have always been a very physical guy and had no problems making loads of great friends. Now though I am "married" I feel like an underclass, trapped, deceived, rejected and unknown to the world. I worry that one can over think it, not see the woods for the trees - surely a partner who declines sex constantly is just rejecting you pure and simple. Wouldn't it make sense to start spending time around other people, relax a bit and make a few friends ? It is interesting that everyone who comes here looking for answers speculate their partner has a problem - low libido, medical/mental, asexual, gay, drug/porn... or some other addiction, etc, but the one thing they can't consider is that their spouse is having sex with other people and basically just doesn't want to have sex with you. It seems like a taboo subject here. And more than once it has turned out true and the person is always devastated. I have a thought on this, always presume they are getting their needs met somewhere. From that you start to think reasons don't matter. I thought for a while there that my wife was cheating on me. She has the perfect opportunities to do so, she travels on business trips very frequently, twelve to fifteen times a year. So, quite a while ago I decided to see if i could find anything. I know all her passwords, so it was easy to access her devices. I scoured her iPad, iPhone, personal and work email, and text messages but found nothing. I also monitored her cell phone usage, no indication of anything there. I turned on location services on her phone so I could track her location. She never once went anywhere even remotely questionable. In my case I really do believe she is asexual.
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Post by baza on Jul 3, 2017 2:44:34 GMT -5
Exactly Brother lifeinwoodinville You have eliminated cheating as the "why" in your situation. Had you discovered that cheating WAS the "why", it wouldn't have changed anything anyway. The core problem of what she is NOT doing within the marriage would not have altered. And, if her "why" is correctly proven to be "asexuality", that also will alter nothing.
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Post by lifeinwoodinville on Jul 3, 2017 6:05:16 GMT -5
Exactly Brother lifeinwoodinville You have eliminated cheating as the "why" in your situation. Had you discovered that cheating WAS the "why, it wouldn't have changed anything anyway. The core problem of what she is NOT doing within the marriage would not have altered. And, if her "why" is correctly proven to be "asexuality", that also will alter nothing. The only thing it changes is my reaction to the situation. If it turns out that she is asexual then I have empathy for her thoughts and feelings. If she is doing the horizontal mamba with another guy then I go Godzilla on her puny little town.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 9:38:41 GMT -5
It is interesting that everyone who comes here looking for answers speculate their partner has a problem - low libido, medical/mental, asexual, gay, drug/porn... or some other addiction, etc, but the one thing they can't consider is that their spouse is having sex with other people and basically just doesn't want to have sex with you. It seems like a taboo subject here. And more than once it has turned out true and the person is always devastated. I have a thought on this, always presume they are getting their needs met somewhere. From that you start to think reasons don't matter. Celt, that is an excellent point. We really don't want to think that our LL spouse is doing that, but it is very possible. Another issue that we don't like to think about is that we may just not be attractive to our spouse. People change over time, and sometimes the person who made your heart flutter at one time, now makes you neutral or disgusted. It is sad, but I had to face that myself. My refuser just did not find me attractive. She may have loved me, but she did not have any sexual longings for me. It hurts to realize that, but when I thought about the possibility, I had to accept it.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 3, 2017 9:53:24 GMT -5
Are our refusers boinking someone else? It is, of course, always possible but I suspect it is generally unlikely for a couple of reasons...
Whenever the subject of outsourcing comes up here (in the context of us, the refused) the risk of discovery is high on the subject list. The risk of discovery, over the long haul, is usually considered to be more a matter of when, not if. And most of our SMs have gone on far more than long enough for that roll of the dice to play out. Doesn't it work the same way for our refusers? Yet my sense is that there is little discovery going on here.
I recall a number of discussions on the old EP that in the case where the sex ended rather abruptly after a number of years of a satisfying relationship, that cheating was high on the list of possibilities due to the idea of "shifting allegiances". And I would agree with that. But in the case where the sexual problems started early in the marriage (often on or very shortly after the wedding) it is hard to believe that a lot of refusing spouses were cheating even before the wedding day, and already shifted allegiance.
So perhaps the probability of your spouse cheating might have a lot to do with your SM history. These are just random thoughts of mine.
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 3, 2017 10:52:47 GMT -5
Another issue that we don't like to think about is that we may just not be attractive to our spouse. People change over time, and sometimes the person who made your heart flutter at one time, now makes you neutral or disgusted. It is sad, but I had to face that myself. My refuser just did not find me attractive. She may have loved me, but she did not have any sexual longings for me. It hurts to realize that, but when I thought about the possibility, I had to accept it. Or even, that they never found you attractive. That perhaps you seemed like a good bet financially, offered potential for long-term stability, seemed like good genetic material for offspring... or, were just easily manipulated to their wishes. This has crossed my mind many times. The great frustration is that they will vehemently deny this reality, because admitting it would be inconvenient. They prefer to live a lie instead of face the consequences of admitting to an obvious truth.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 11:28:31 GMT -5
It is interesting that everyone who comes here looking for answers speculate their partner has a problem - low libido, medical/mental, asexual, gay, drug/porn... or some other addiction, etc, but the one thing they can't consider is that their spouse is having sex with other people and basically just doesn't want to have sex with you. It seems like a taboo subject here. And more than once it has turned out true and the person is always devastated. I have a thought on this, always presume they are getting their needs met somewhere. From that you start to think reasons don't matter. I thought for a while there that my wife was cheating on me. She has the perfect opportunities to do so, she travels on business trips very frequently, twelve to fifteen times a year. So, quite a while ago I decided to see if i could find anything. I know all her passwords, so it was easy to access her devices. I scoured her iPad, iPhone, personal and work email, and text messages but found nothing. I also monitored her cell phone usage, no indication of anything there. I turned on location services on her phone so I could track her location. She never once went anywhere even remotely questionable. In my case I really do believe she is asexual. Thank you for proving my point perfectly - you still ain't having sex but you have found an excuse you can live with, she asexual, or should I say her problem doesn't reflect directly on you but it still doesn't matter and so finding an excuse or even a real answer changes nothing.
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Post by WindSister on Jul 3, 2017 12:15:34 GMT -5
I haven't posted her before so go easy on me. It is hard to ask the obvious. But isn't someone who constantly declines sex rejecting their partner as a lover and just staying with them selfishly. Doesn't that give the reflected partner the right to find another lover ? I can't help thinking that a lot of those who decline sex are having or would possibly have sex with someone else ? Some of the comments sound as if people just resign themselves to what is awful and very unfair treatment. The pain of suffering that constant rejection is crazy. I have felt that pain and anguish for more than ten years, since I was in my twenties and married. I have always been a very physical guy and had no problems making loads of great friends. Now though I am "married" I feel like an underclass, trapped, deceived, rejected and unknown to the world. I worry that one can over think it, not see the woods for the trees - surely a partner who declines sex constantly is just rejecting you pure and simple. Wouldn't it make sense to start spending time around other people, relax a bit and make a few friends ? It is interesting that everyone who comes here looking for answers speculate their partner has a problem - low libido, medical/mental, asexual, gay, drug/porn... or some other addiction, etc, but the one thing they can't consider is that their spouse is having sex with other people and basically just doesn't want to have sex with you. It seems like a taboo subject here. And more than once it has turned out true and the person is always devastated. I have a thought on this, always presume they are getting their needs met somewhere. From that you start to think reasons don't matter. The simple fact is, not having sex with YOU (the refused spouse) IS meeting their needs, no matter the why we come up with. But, to go off from this a bit more, and likely in a different direction than you intended, it is important to note that a failing marriage doesn't fail because of just one partner, anyway. And like wewbwb posted in a different thread, we only see what each of us share here. That's the insight we get into all of our relationships - what the person sharing shares. Personal responsibility is huge in relationships and so is being honest with one's self. It's easy to blame the other, but we all bring or brought an energy to these relationships, too. Sometimes the dynamic of two people is simply no good. I am here to say, when the dynamic between two people IS good, let me tell you, it's amazing. But one must know the energy one brings to a relationship, whether it's enabling, avoiding, etc.... It all matters in how things play out. I didn't know how to be good in relationships before. Now I have learned a thing or two and the energy I bring to my new marriage is very different than what I brought to the one with my ex.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 12:31:54 GMT -5
When things started going south between me and Mr. Kat, the first thing I thought of was another woman.
That wasn't the problem. The problem (as I see it) is that he was ready to accept being old and sick - and I am not.
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Post by carl on Jul 3, 2017 13:54:14 GMT -5
It is interesting that everyone who comes here looking for answers speculate their partner has a problem - low libido, medical/mental, asexual, gay, drug/porn... or some other addiction, etc, but the one thing they can't consider is that their spouse is having sex with other people and basically just doesn't want to have sex with you. It seems like a taboo subject here. And more than once it has turned out true and the person is always devastated. I have a thought on this, always presume they are getting their needs met somewhere. From that you start to think reasons don't matter. The simple fact is, not having sex with YOU (the refused spouse) IS meeting their needs, no matter the why we come up with. But, to go off from this a bit more, and likely in a different direction than you intended, it is important to note that a failing marriage doesn't fail because of just one partner, anyway. And like wewbwb posted in a different thread, we only see what each of us share here. That's the insight we get into all of our relationships - what the person sharing shares. Personal responsibility is huge in relationships and so is being honest with one's self. It's easy to blame the other, but we all bring or brought an energy to these relationships, too. Sometimes the dynamic of two people is simply no good. I am here to say, when the dynamic between two people IS good, let me tell you, it's amazing. But one must know the energy one brings to a relationship, whether it's enabling, avoiding, etc.... It all matters in how things play out. I didn't know how to be good in relationships before. Now I have learned a thing or two and the energy I bring to my new marriage is very different than what I brought to the one with my ex.
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Post by wewbwb on Jul 3, 2017 14:38:12 GMT -5
I'll go one further . Often, we see what only we allow ourselves to see. I know in my case the signs of a failing marriage were obvious . I chose to ignore them (I'm good at that)
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Post by beachguy on Jul 3, 2017 18:01:59 GMT -5
It is interesting that everyone who comes here looking for answers speculate their partner has a problem - low libido, medical/mental, asexual, gay, drug/porn... or some other addiction, etc, but the one thing they can't consider is that their spouse is having sex with other people and basically just doesn't want to have sex with you. It seems like a taboo subject here. And more than once it has turned out true and the person is always devastated. I have a thought on this, always presume they are getting their needs met somewhere. From that you start to think reasons don't matter. To "always PRESUME a refusing spouse is cheating" is equally presumptuous as always PRESUMING your spouse has little or no sexual needs. Both are certainly possibilities and both have come to be true in the stories here. It just seems to me to be an invalid presumption when used in such a general way.
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Post by baza on Jul 3, 2017 22:10:27 GMT -5
To cut to the chase here, all that has to happen for a refusives excuse/reason to be valid is for you to swallow it.
It doesn't matter how fanciful, or what absolute bullshit it might be, or what an outright lie it is, or how genuine and real it might be.
Once you accept it - by "going along with it" - then it becomes a valid excuse for you to issue the free pass to your spouse to continue their behaviour, and to give yourself a free pass on taking any action.
It really does not matter what the "why" is, one is pretty much as good as another.
What's important is whether you swallow it or not.
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