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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 23:29:40 GMT -5
I don't get it are we saying we only did this stuff in lieu of sex and intimacy. Personally I did everything because I have a lust for life ... and I am a bad boy
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Post by rdp62 on Jun 18, 2017 23:36:11 GMT -5
Highly recommended with or without wine Seriously though coping I think should be a temporary solution as long as there is progress as well. Not huge progress maybe why our discussion went ok, that we are not expecting immediate 100% normalcy. Just slow consistent progress back to normal to be clear though this is an SM support site so there wasn't an option of continued refusal maybe not the best way to put it but if there was no interest in intimacy moving forward that would have have been it, I had to make that 100% clear. Yes! A nice dark red - mmmmm....... double-whammy "downer" maybe though Very interested as to what, if any, progress you and your W have been able to make! Fingers crossed for you! Some progress so far will let you know, I think two weeks is a good time to decide if working or not. All of our situations are different so the saying your mileage may vary? But so far
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Post by baza on Jun 19, 2017 0:03:23 GMT -5
I don't get it are we saying we only did this stuff in lieu of sex and intimacy. Personally I did everything because I have a lust for life ... and I am a bad boy Very telling point @thecelt makes. Having a hobby of cabinet making is not mutually exclusive to having a robust sex life. I'd venture to say that many amatuer cabinet makers fuck their spouses silly. As would "gamers". And "theatre goers" And "civil war figurine collectors", "Ducati Motor Bike Tuners", and 000's of other interests / hobbies. But do these things adequately replace a robust sex life, or represent fair compensation for tolerating an ILIASM shithole ? Entirely your call. If you say "yes", I won't argue with you. Entirely your choice.
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Post by choosinghappy on Jun 19, 2017 1:27:43 GMT -5
Oh, also, games!! Board games, console, computer or role playing! I'll take that last one, please and thank you ;-)
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Post by nolongerlonely on Jun 19, 2017 1:56:44 GMT -5
I've been on here for a few months now, and I have enjoyed the benefit of some fantastic support from a bunch of great people. But I dont agree that the forum is sending people towards divorce. In fact its been pointed out to me on a number of occasions by other board members that many of us choose to stay. However, for me, very sadly, I dont think thats the way forward. Not if I am to promote long term life skills anyway. By which I mean, not either, jumping off a cliff, taking up extreme sports that are shall we say, or developing addictions to unhealthy things. I've managed to avoid all three so far, but once or twice, only just. So, in my soon to be 28 years of marriage, in a 29 year relationship, I would summarise ;
Marriage was in my opinion a full life to end of life commitment. I never thought or wanted to be here. At the time, I was 'head over heels' but at a young and perhaps naive age, could not see the signs. Well, some of them werent displayed until post-marriage. So, was it all a lie in the first place I have asked a few times. I wasnt a bad catch, own home, own business, premises for the business also owned, good income, and liked having fun. I still like having fun.
Early SM signs were ignored by me. Put down to working too hard, hormones, and so on. It took quite a while for the penny to drop.
I have also survived via flirting. Its helped, kept me feeling alive I suppose.
I've drunk too much on occasions, and felt like shit afterwards. It almost became habitual at one stage
I've never taken anti-depressants, but probably should have. But here, gun ownership requires no history of depression, and I do enjoy clay pigeon shooting, so they were off the menu. Having them in the cupboard, proves I never intended to do away with myself, although I'd feel guilty about all the mess I would leave behind anyway
Absorbing myself in work. That was easy
Loving pets. They still are a major part of my surrogate love life
Taking up hobbies. Well I never stopped them anyway, but have just done them alot more.
Being busy. I cant not be busy. Need to get out and do stuff, wear myself out and consume the day with activity
They all have been a fail. My sometimes abusive partner has worn me down to the point that I cant cope any more. I've asked for divorce a few times in the past, but never meant it like I did last week, and I now am on the road to having my very own 'stbx'. I cant say I am happy about that, but I must also say that the prospect of having a better life, or just a life at all, does seem rather attractive. I cant believe it in fact. I've been living in hell for years. I honestly believe I am a relatively nice human. I always put the needs of others first, and 'put up with' whatever I get. I'm surprisingly happy considering it all. But inside, no, I'm a wreck.
Oh, I forgot laughter. And extreme sarcasm. They have helped too. I dont think I will ever be without them.
But above all, its all about personal perspective isnt it ? This forum showed me there is a better place. It also showed me that in my personal circumstances, I am enduring and have endured far more than is ''acceptable''. How everyone elses relationship is, I dont know. But mine has been a shit pit. And I need to dig myself out. I'm shovelling well at present.
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Post by nolongerlonely on Jun 19, 2017 3:31:27 GMT -5
I wrote that in a bit of a rush and forgot to add a couple of points : masturbation that was on the list wasn't it well I've succumbed to that too in fact started wearing spectacles a few years ago telling their own story sadly and the fear of arthritis in my hand has caused me to develop ambidextrous techniques lol its still at best a prop rather than a fix
Then outsourcing well I've thought pretty long and hard about that but for me it's meaningless without the emotional connection so that rules out paying for it too
And finally I'd like to analyse 'waking up' you can interpret that in two ways but for me what I am getting it is waking up next to someone you haven't hugged or kissed in so long you can't remember and realising you no longer even want to do that any more because the mental abuse has been so bad any attraction has died and the love lost - I got there about 2 years ago and due to a lack of personal confidence and no personal esteem also possibly caused by the Sm and all the unpleasant comments failed to do anything about it
Consequently finding this place has been quite possibly a life saver and in my case I truly believe separation is the only way forward - I've known that for ages just lacked the courage to do it
But it isn't because of the forum it's with the help of the forum
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Post by shamwow on Jun 19, 2017 6:59:32 GMT -5
I don't want to turn this into a referendum on whether divorce is the best answer. There are lots of reasons why one may not want to divorce, or not want to divorce now. Some may be good reasons and some may be excuses. But they are all real to the person making that decision. So this thread, instead of disparaging that decision like so many other threads here end up doing, is meant to help the refused to find ways to do the best they can with the cards they are dealt but without changing the game. I know I've only been active here a short time but it seems to me that ILIASM should be for support first, and advice only for those who ask. Yes, we all know divorce is an option and there is a wealth of very valuable information here for those who choose that option. But there is much less here to support those who are stuck and who for whatever reason - kids, social, religious, financial, emotional, whatever - aren't interested in that option. I want to try to change that and help those people a little bit. Because for those of us who don't believe we have that option, ILIASM just becomes another obstacle, not a place for honest support. And if it becomes nothing but a cheerleading site for divorce, it leave behind a lot of the people it was meant to help. Those of us who feel we are stuck do have options. Suboptimal, perhaps, but options. And the healthy choices would help counteract the crushing feelings of rejection and worthlessness that we experience every day. Nothing can make up for losing such an important part of the relationship, but perhaps improving ourselves can put us in a better place to make further better choices, alone or together with our spouses. I would quibble with one point. Not everyone knows divorce is an option... Stupid as that may seem. For years I took my vows of "till death do you part" very seriously. Serious to the point that I really thought the only way out of this was for one of us to kick the bucket. Before I found this forum I had kind of started thinking of divorce as an option but only through the support and examples here did I get the nerve and support to follow through. So yes, there is support here for divorce coming from a unique perspective of those in a sexless marriage. Don't discount that perspective. It has also helped in my healing process. Just a minor quibble though. I do think that perhaps we should discuss "stay" options more, but for those in person counseling seems a more appropriate route than therapy via text.
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Post by lyn on Jun 19, 2017 9:44:23 GMT -5
Some of the strategies I employed during the "staying because..." phase: *VERY involved in kid's lives activities (both off in college now though - being adults - still involved but now from a distance of course) - so this strategy for me, no longer works really *extreme amounts of physical activity in order to feel exhausted / depleted by bedtime. Physical exhaustion pairs wonderfully with situational depression when it's time to hit-the-sack ALONE *charitable giving - run a small charity that occupies many hours each week- also helps to keep *life* in perspective - helps keep my faith in humanity in tact. In or out of the sm, probably helps with *coping* the most.(mebbe not sure) *near obsessive about nutrition - for peak health and performance (performance?). Try to keep it moving with or without the shackles of the sm trying to keep things stagnant. *retail therapy - self explanatory *constant "research-mode" - if you throw yourself into learning everything about *whatever*, one can almost forget what one's own life is actually like. *of course - THC filled chocolate makes everything better. These are the strategies I've employed during the past 6/7 years. Prior to that, 12-16 hour work days thrown into the mix kept me "distracted" quite well. I've had my own concocted list of reasons for staying. Goal posts of my own. Each one has been checked-off at this point. Sometimes one does NEED to stay in the trenches (i.e. The sm) for whatever reason. It seems to be human nature (at least for the many many kind, empathetic members here) to try to help one realize that life could be better - potentially - if leaving seems to be the *best* viable option. Not necessarily Pro-Divorce by any means, just Pro-Happiness - pro-evolution of self. K - I know I'm quoting myself here ^^^^ But, to speak to what baza and thecelt have said: Personally, the things I've done in my sm - the listed items above, in all honestly I probably would've done these things anyway. In a good marriage or not. Now, having removed myself from the marriage, I can't imagine that I will change my activities much, if at all, but hope to add some NEW things to the "list", That being said, I know that while *doing* life while in the sm, the compulsion to stay so busy was so strong because deep down I knew that if I sat, quietly in rumination, focusing on the reality of just how sh*tty my marriage had become, I would've fallen into a pit of despair. I don't think I would've been able to climb out of it but I don't really know. Maybe I did actually "fall in". Maybe this NOW is me, after "climbing out". All of the *busy stuff* still only fulfilled me to a degree. Howwver, I do know it was impossible to be fully *present*, let alone happy, while doing pretty much anything. The damn SM ALWAYS remained in my thoughts - no matter how hard I tried NOT to focus on it, it was there, in the back of my mind, ALWAYS. Life going forward, I'm noticing the space in my head once reserved for the angst is slowly being replaced by optimism or even better lust. Lust for life. Time to start LIVING life instead of just DOING life. Big difference.
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Post by nolongerlonely on Jun 19, 2017 10:23:48 GMT -5
lyn, you are so right, that the damned SM always remains in your mind. Its like an ulcer. Well I've never had one, but imagine thats what its like. Its a bit like one of those funny films, where everything you look at you constantly see the same thing. Bizarre. But true. And highly annoying. And I'm well and truly done with 'doing life'. I think its an insult to those of us far less physically fortunate. I cant wait for the LIVING. I've had the most wonderful taste of it over the last few weeks, and its way better than anything I have experienced in as long as I can remember. I want it alot.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 10:43:53 GMT -5
When I first came on here, I never thought it would change my life so much. I've always been an independent person and not much of a joiner. I liked individual sports and not team sports. This virtual group was what stopped me from wasting my life away. I appreciated the honesty and many times heard things I did not like. If you have to cope to stay in something, then the problem is with you or the relationship. I'm not satisfied with coping anymore. The only good thing that has come about for me is that I've become a better musician. I threw all my sex drive, which was and is high into learning to play music. I have two great kids from my marriage. For me, the best coping skill I implemented was emotionally detaching from my wife. It's painful but you'll grow from it. My only regret was not doing it five years ago. Of course, it's not easy to do it because we've become dependent on our spouses. If you're curious about detaching emotionally from a healthy standpoint, check out this article www.psychologytoday.com/blog/insight-is-2020/201407/how-leave-relationship-emotionally-stay If you try this, you may be surprised by your relationship. You'll either want to move on or stay. I can promise you that you'll start making better decisions because you're no longer making excuses for the marriage.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jun 19, 2017 10:48:12 GMT -5
I'm not sure what "coping" is, but in the realm of "reducing harm", the single most effective thing I did was in making up a spare bedroom and sleeping there.
Sleeping with my attractive spouse meant countless nights of sexual frustration, a lack of privacy in which to "take matters in hand, literally hundreds of minor and major rejections, disses and letdowns per year - mostly during the wee hours of the morning when I would be barely awake and not thinking clearly. The misery was as relentless as the hope that "this might be a yes night that I couldn't afford to miss". It was the mindset of a gambler addict.
Taking myself OUT of that madness reduced the suffering and felt more authentic. I got restful sleep, and read books, played videogames - did my own thing. I felt more honest to myself and it changed my mindset about my situation eventually.
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Post by rdp62 on Jun 19, 2017 11:06:13 GMT -5
I don't get it are we saying we only did this stuff in lieu of sex and intimacy. Personally I did everything because I have a lust for life ... and I am a bad boy Very telling point @thecelt makes. Having a hobby of cabinet making is not mutually exclusive to having a robust sex life. I'd venture to say that many amatuer cabinet makers fuck their spouses silly. As would "gamers". And "theatre goers" And "civil war figurine collectors", "Ducati Motor Bike Tuners", and 000's of other interests / hobbies. But do these things adequately replace a robust sex life, or represent fair compensation for tolerating an ILIASM shithole ? Entirely your call. If you say "yes", I won't argue with you. Entirely your choice. With the exception of Ducati motorcycle tuning this list of replacing a sex life is correct we do need our priorities. Is it possible to add pictures to posts? I think so but technically challenged
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Post by h on Jun 19, 2017 14:53:15 GMT -5
Oh, also, games!! Board games, console, computer or role playing! I joined a cribbage group with a bunch if really nice people at my library when we still lived in Alaska. Fantastic group with so much interesting discussion. Miss that group. Dungeons and Dragons is also a lot of time and fun... And you get to role play and become whomever you choose, good stuff.. Would recommend I also sank far too much time into World of Warcraft... And I would be doing it right now if I weren't in college and had a toddler (maybe if she went to daycare...hmmm..) Or a board game group. We had a running group at our house. We would rotate games, each couple would bring a game they liked or something they wanted to try and we would spend a couple hours playing... Get some coals on, some beers open, great night to wear you out with laughter and companionship. Default was naturally Cards Against Humanity Okay, okay, I'm done... I will leave you alone I never got into Dungeons and Dragons but I've gotten majorly into Warhammer. Lots of time and focus on painting miniature models. You could spend a lifetime building a collection and have social activities to go with it.
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Post by h on Jun 19, 2017 14:56:40 GMT -5
Heavy drinking for 25+ years. Coping, maybe, but i highly don't recommend it. Same here...substance abuse in my experience is a really poor way of coping... But after a while even alcoholism strangely looked attractive as something to distract. If you can maintain the right balance though, as long as it doesn't affect your job alcohol can be effective in dulling sex drive. Just enough to not have a hangover...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 15:41:27 GMT -5
I have never found that throwing myself into other things affected how I viewed or "managed" the emptiness of a SM. I do things that I enjoy because I enjoy them, not as a coping mechanism although I'm sure they ultimately reduce stress. Seriously, separate bedrooms works for me. When the kids were all away at College this past year, I spent about 60% of my nights in another bedroom. Wife didn't really seem to care and mentioned how well she slept.....
Nothing has really helped in 28 years of marriage. I cope better now than when I was 30 but my strategy is just detachment, resignation, antipathy and it helps that I have the sex drive of a 50-year old. How sad is that.
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