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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 17:34:41 GMT -5
I have to give an update to my marriage. My wife is becoming much warmer towards me. She even apologized for her behavior this last week. Usually, my wife is busy reflecting back on the person or someone else instead of accepting responsibility. She has become more affectionate the last few days.
She noticed that I was wearing something different and had styled my hair differently. I'm not asking for hugs anymore but she's starting to give them. I think a part of her realizes that she could loose me. Where before it was me begging and pleading for sex. All the power in the relationship was with her. Now, it's no longer like this. I'm the one gaining the power now. A part of me wants to be a little distant with her. This seems like game playing . If I'm honest about the situation, I'm still a little pissed about the sexual withholding that happened in the past. I know it's not a mature perspective and need to let this go. I should only be living today not thinking of old history.
After the holidays, I begin to renew my quest to better myself emotionally and physically. I would encourage others in the year of 2017 to start taking care of yourself physically and emotionally. You may be surprised how your spouse starts to respond to you. There's a certain energy you get when you're living well. Others pick up on this.
Become the type of person that deserves a great spouse and if you're spouse does not want to be a great spouse in return , then begin plans to move on. There are others out there who will appreciate another kind and caring person and will reciprocate the kindness back.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 8, 2017 17:45:42 GMT -5
I have to give an update to my marriage. My wife is becoming much warmer towards me. She even apologized for her behavior this last week. Usually, my wife is busy reflecting back on the person or someone else instead of accepting responsibility. She has become more affectionate the last few days. She noticed that I was wearing something different and had styled my hair differently. I'm not asking for hugs anymore but she's starting to give them. I think a part of her realizes that she could loose me. Where before it was me begging and pleading for sex. All the power in the relationship was with her. Now, it's no longer like this. I'm the one gaining the power now. A part of me wants to be a little distant with her. This seems like game playing . If I'm honest about the situation, I'm still a little pissed about the sexual withholding that happened in the past. I know it's not a mature perspective and need to let this go. I should only be living today not thinking of old history. After the holidays, I begin to renew my quest to better myself emotionally and physically. I would encourage others in the year of 2017 to start taking care of yourself physically and emotionally. You may be surprised how your spouse starts to respond to you. There's a certain energy you get when you're living well. Others pick up on this. Become the type of person that deserves a great spouse and if you're spouse does not want to be a great spouse in return , then begin plans to move on. There are others out there who will appreciate another kind and caring person and will reciprocate the kindness back. If this "sticks" I'm happy for you. Just be sure to see how it works long term before making your final judgment
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 8, 2017 19:30:03 GMT -5
I turned my SM around. It just happened to be a loaded gun aimed straight at me.
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Post by baza on Jan 8, 2017 21:49:14 GMT -5
Brother heraclitus post is like a burst of fresh air through here.
Sort your own shit out, and, quoting Brother H here - "Become the type of person that deserves a great spouse and if you're spouse does not want to be a great spouse in return , then begin plans to move on".
Best suggestion I've seen on here in many a day.
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Post by timeforliving2 on Jan 8, 2017 22:49:38 GMT -5
I think SM can be turned around but it takes both people to do it. I used the ideas from His need and Her needs building an affair proof marriage, see the website www.marriagebuilders.com//graphic/mbi3000_intro.html He is a Christian. I'm not religious and found much useful information from the book. Some of the roles in the book could easily be reversed. It does not take away from the the ideas in the work, just realize that when he says a man it could be a woman to.. 1. I no longer told my wife about hurt feelings and blaming her. I made it known that I have basic needs that need to be met. When I married her, she agreed to meet those needs. In return I meet her needs. Marriage is about negotiation. Love is earned and not something that just happens. You earn that love by meeting the person's needs. We have basic needs and when they are fulfilled, then it's like deposits in the bank. Read more above on the website about the love bank. When those needs are not met then withdrawals began to happen. So you eventually reach a point where there is negative balance. If it's bad enough the marriage falls apart. This is not only applies to marriage but friendships. If you are always taking then a person will not stick around usually. Your spouse's needs may not be sexual. It could be financial security, or doing a hobby with them. This may be their top need. So as a spouse you may not like dancing but if it is what makes your spouse the most happy then you do it. 2. My number one need is sex. I told my wife that I need it at least twice a week. I would prefer it three but would settle for two. I knew if I said two then it may be one. My wife has been meeting this need for the last couple of months. Number 2 need was intimacy with hugging, snuggling, and kissing. Now my wife has not been as good about this. I should not complain because I'm getting laid and it's my number one need. If I was just getting hugged and kissed, I would go around blue balled. This may be a little peevish on my part. I should be honest and say that wife came home tonight and asked me if I wanted to snuggle on the couch. I just reminded her several days ago about my needs for warmth in a relationship. I told her that it had been several months since we last discussed everything. I had asked her if she wanted to be the wife that I want. She said yes. In return I had to straighten up some things that I was doing to her. So it really goes both ways if you want to fix the marriage. I have to be the husband she wants in return. There is no easy panacea to having a good relationship. It takes daily work and being present. 3. I've had to make sacrifices to my wife to meet her needs. Unfortunately her no 1. need was not sex. There are times that I have to do things I do not want to do. I just do it with a smile on my face and it's getting easier. I can't expect my wife to meet my needs if I do not reciprocate. My marriage has made an abrupt turn from the past. I had to give an ultimatum to my wife. This has caused some stress in the relationship. When your spouse tells you that they'll make up their mind if they want to stay depending on how things go, it does not make it easy. But it cuts out the bullshit quick. The reality of the situation sets in quickly for the refusing spouse. I don't beg for sex anymore. I hold my head head high around the house now because I no longer accept the marriage as it was. My wife respects me now and I have more respect for myself. We still get into disagreements but I pick my battles more careful now. It's only those things that are important. I no longer bring up the past, nor does she. 4. One of the consequences of turning my marriage around was working on myself. I realized that I had become pretty pathetic. I had brutal honesty for myself because I had enough. I have changed much faster than my wife but then I've been thinking about this much longer than her. Now I find myself questioning if I should stay. My needs are met but will it be enough? Will my wife become the woman that I want for a wife? I'm looking for excellence in my marriage. I want a special relationship. I've had enough of just good enough. I'm willing to do the work and hoping that my wife will step up more. If she does not, then I'll have to leave. Tonight was a good sign since she suggested being close. My wife has told me that she wants the same thing out of our marriage. I need to see action and change over the next couple of months. I do not expect a miracle but things should slowly improve and move in a positive direction. We also have a good friendship for a base. But as I've said before being close friends does not make for a great lover or intimacy. I know that I may sound a little negative but I'm a realist. I realize that my relationship could turn out great or go bad. I'm not going to delude myself either way. I'm only looking at the facts and what transpires not what is said. Very well said... I agree with practically everything you said and I had a very similar situation and turnaround. Thanks for posting this recap of your situation. I think others will find it helpful. TL2
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Post by timeforliving2 on Jan 8, 2017 22:55:08 GMT -5
A SM is kind of like a cancer with modern medicine. If it is caught early, often it can be dealt with quickly and easily with a minimum amount of pain. As time goes by, however, treatment becomes more time consuming, difficult, and painful. If sexless changes into loveless that is like the cancer spreading. Can it be treated at this point? Yes, but the odds just went way down. If loveless changes to hate and disrespect then even reset sex becomes little more effective than asprin. Very few stage 4 cancer patients in hospice go into remission. Most people in this forum appear to be well into stage 3 (myself included) or into stage 4. Perhaps if SM had the same lack of social stigma that cancer has it could be treated early and easily in many cases. I came up with the *same* analogy when EP was around. Good minds think alike! You've inspired me to find an old post and re-share it here. Will do that separately below. TL2
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Post by timeforliving2 on Jan 8, 2017 23:02:12 GMT -5
Seeing the recent posts by @heraclitus and shamwow , I was inspired to find an old post I would post from time to time when new people joined the group. This post incorporates things they both just said but also summarizes some of the key things I've learned after a nearly 20 year SM and getting it to turn around. I tried to summarize a lot of good nuggets all in one post. Hope this helps some of you out there. TL2 *** Regarding your SM (defined as no sex or sex less than monthly / single digits each year), create a Plan A and assign a reasonable deadline for your spouse / refuser to make significant improvements, and also start thinking of a Plan B. Your spouse / refuser obviously doesn't see sex as a *need* in the marriage at this point. And it is. Just as is the need for emotional intimacy that your spouse may be seeking more of from you. Sex releases the love hormone oxytocin in *both* men and women. This is the same hormone that deepens the bond between mother and child. So when men and women have sex in a loving relationship, it can do tremendous things to deepen and grow their emotional intimacy at the same time. Make your choices based on this realization I had a few years ago: A spouse who refuses sex to the other is being "unfaithful to the marriage". Sex is a realistic expectation and assumption and you pledged to be (sexually) faithful to one person. You did not take a vow of celibacy (or agree to live in a virtually sexless marriage). That's far from the deal. Being unfaithful to the marriage in this manner is just as culpable as someone who traditionally "cheats". Your refuser spouse has cheated the opportunity for intimacy out of the marriage. Since your spouse has been unfaithful *FIRST*, it's your choice what you do in response to that unfaithfulness. You've got to treat this as aggressively as "traditional" cheating. Similarly, a SM is like marriage cancer. You've got to treat it as aggressively as *actual* cancer. Sometimes even after aggressive treatment the cancer still wins and what was once full of life cannot be saved. Other times you can beat the cancer. If you're going to beat this marriage cancer (a SM) you've *both* got to be vested in the process, and an independent counselor (who you both concur on) will probably be your best chance of saving the marriage before the cancer gets worse. If one counselor does not help you after a reasonable time, be ready to move to another counselor. Even with a counselor though, sometimes significant damage has already been done and it may be extremely difficult to overcome, particularly if the SM (or virtual SM / single digits a year) has existed for an extremely long time (e.g. 2 years or longer). You both allocate time to work, you both allocate time to your kid(s) if any, and you both also need to allocate time to you and your relationship. Odds are that your refuser needs more things from you as well in order to more closely connect with you. Admit that neither of you is perfect and make the concession / effort that your refuser is asking for. But your refuser needs to hold his/her end of the bargain then too on what you want and need. You are probably in a "downward spiral" where neither of you feels their needs are being met and therefore you're not giving the other person what he/she needs. Realize you are different people and therefore your needs will likely be somewhat different. To reverse what you've got and to get into an “upward spiral”, you've *both* got to focus on the *giving* to the other person what he/she needs (not necessarily what *you* need). If you're both making an honest effort on that, then you can get an upward spiral going. These thoughts come from years of reading here (and previously on EP) and reaching my own conclusions. Do something now. Don't let another year waste away. These are the best years of your life. Make the most of them. Do not let your marriage decay into a marriage as suggested by Amanda Palmer in her YouTube video (and song) called "The Bed Song". Watch it and let that be your motivation. Share it with your refuser and it will definitely break the ice. Sweeping this issue under the rug or sticking your head in the sand on this issue will get you nowhere. It will only get worse. Communication is key. Difficult conversations, yes, but that's why an independent counselor can be helpful / often is needed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2017 11:53:36 GMT -5
I think sharing a faith or at least believing in something greater than yourself could go a long way towards saving a marriage. If you are the center of your world, why work for someone else's happiness? It's my 2 cents that having a spiritual framework goes a long way towards wanting to connect with and please someone else before pleasing yourself. There's also the fact that religions will generally outline precepts for a healthy marriage, giving people who share that religion a framework to build on. If both believe in God or a similar higher power, surely they're not going to argue with the higher power, but instead come together to work on it, to please God or at least to comply with their shared (or similar) spiritual or religious precepts. I'm married to a self-proclaimed atheist. That fella don't answer to nobody - not God and certainly not me. Not much I can do with that attitude. I'll never marry another atheist. Next Mr. Elle will have an intimate relationship with God. The humility of understanding you're not a deity (because someone else IS) gives warrant to at least considering your flaws, trying to address them, and not subjugating the rest of humanity to your whim. Your husband answers to plenty of folks, Elle. Don't kid yourself. They're all wielding bigger sticks than you do. He perceives he needs them more than he needs you. He'll likely come to change that perception after it's too late.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 13, 2017 15:10:48 GMT -5
The peak credible claims since Feb 2009 was 8. That was out of 50,000+ members. Do the math. 1 in 6,250, or 00.02% if you prefer. - Of those 8, Brother Apochyrpha's deal proved unsustainable and collapsed after a couple of years. That's true. There was a period of false happiness and a renewed patience on my part as we explored an worked out the kinks of a new relationship format. I sometimes refer to it as my second marriage to Mrs Apocrypha. It was a completely different deal, redefining the marriage itself, while also redefining myself. I guess it lasted maybe 3-4 years, give or take. I underestimated Mrs Apocrypha's capacity for passive aggression though, consistently breaking our deal sometimes in drastic ways, and me rationalizing it as our learning curve. When the intimacy aversion returned on both a major vacation, and then a casual weekend getaway under the best of conditions, including a couple's therapy program with a new counselor - that she was not following through on, I told her that I was done and that we will separate.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 15, 2017 10:11:38 GMT -5
So many excellent posts - Jeez - I feel like you all have been spying on my life - It is like I am reading an AUTO-BIOGRAPHY of myself- What a God Send this Forum. Really. - No I cannot remember who was the Refuser - it has been so many years - probably 10 years of sex every 6 months to 18 months. - Yes absolutely Sex is but a symptom and now I see a very small part of a MUCH BIGGER problem - there is no "couple life" - no intimacy, no little kisses, no holding the person, no spooning . . . . and NO DESIRE for it - gone kaput - gone with the wind of yesteryear. - Reading over the statistics - about 0.5% of SM - can be turned around - I believe that - I can not fall back "in love" as a conscious meditated decision anymore than "falling in love" was a conscious decision. I have NEVER decided and planned to fall in love - it is something that just happens - Cupid and his arrows if you want - so doing "therapy" to create something that is so unconscious of an event and origin. Forget it. Intuitively it is so obvious and the statistics entirely validate this. - Yes, now LOOKING FORWARD AND BEYOND (i.e., new relationship with a new person) it is POSSIBLE to have a long sustained loving relationship - the statistics are about 30% to 40% - excellent article on that here: www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/21/psychology-of-lasting-love_n_5339457.html - So I will just end that YES TRUE LOVE is possible but fixing a zombie appearance of a SM Marriage with all its coldness - of course not.
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Post by hopingforachange on Jan 16, 2017 16:02:40 GMT -5
I am optimistic that my marriage is turning around and will stay in the new direction. After a big discussion and then a weekish later refusal night that I left the bed and stayed up until 2am, which happens to be the night that I find this site. The wife asked me to order "A good girls guide to great sex" from Amazon. She appears to be approaching intimacy and sex differently. I am thinning the change will last because she saw what I was going thru and decided to make the change her self.
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Post by hopingforachange on Jan 16, 2017 16:39:05 GMT -5
Oh, she actually bought a thigh length lace trimmed night gown and wore it all night. She has bought multiple nice bra and panties.... they even sort of matched and are not white, black or flesh tone. Suddenly she has an interest in shopping at Soma. She hasn't bought nice stuff since before we were married.
When I was doing the laundry I commented that she got a $25 off coupon for Soma in her email after the purchase. She had a puzzled look when I asked if she would like the matching bra or underwear, like she didn't know there was such a thing as matching sets. and she liked when I could find the matches online. Although she didn't like that I also ordered 1 matching thong.
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 16, 2017 16:45:40 GMT -5
hopingforachange... everyone here will be cheering you on, and hoping this new behavior sticks. For better or worse, let us know how it goes. May you blaze new trails for us all, and may the trail go well beyond lingerie!
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Post by hopingforachange on Jan 16, 2017 17:20:41 GMT -5
DryCreek Thanks, I hope it stays and is not a bait and switch. We have had a lot of taking lately and some important things have some out. The purity/ abstance push is an issue for her, and sex was viewed as something required for procreation. So for her to read Bible verses that ate saying sex outside of procreation is good, appears to be a game changer. Although, the hasn't been any change in the oral department even though Songs of Solomon allude they it is OK/ good between husband and wife. Solomon 2:3: Like an apple tree among the trees of the forest, so is my beloved among the young men. In his shade I took great delight and sat down, and his fruit was sweet to my taste. Solomon 4:16"Awake, O north wind, and come, wind of the south; make my garden breathe out fragrance. Let its spices be wafted abroad. May my beloved come into his garden and eat its choice fruits!"
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 16, 2017 19:18:02 GMT -5
hopingforachange The most Romantic even I dare Sexual Book in the Bible is SONG OF SOLOMON (it is in the Old Testament). It is loaded with images and poetry about love making and romance. Suggest you both study that . . . Good to hear your progress - you sound like a couple that is just "Sexless" but the love and will to stay together is there and the willingness to make each other happy.
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