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Post by JonDoe on Nov 13, 2016 23:13:21 GMT -5
Wow, I have been near totally numb for quite some time, but feeling so overwhelmed with sadness tonight as if I lost my best friend, which I guess I finally realize that I have. I pushed away the anger and resentment and had a few peaceful days alone this weekend, but as I lay hear in bed alone tonight, I suddenly became overwhelmed with sadness. I can't recall ever feeling this sad in my adult life. I suppose I should look at this as a gift to feel raw emotions again. Trying my best not to bury it, suppress it or sweep it aside.
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Post by becca on Nov 14, 2016 0:16:04 GMT -5
JonDoe, Although the sadness isn't fun, it's real and understandable why you feel the way you do. Embrace it for what it is but just don't let it drag you down into the murky depths of despair. I went through a similar time when I "took off the mask" and allowed myself to feel again. There were times I wanted to go back to the numbness just so I could shake the sadness. If you are thinking it is the end of your marriage, well, that is sad and deserves a little mourning time. Just allow yourself that. You have the right idea. Don't try to bury it or suppress it but instead feel it and move through it. Thinking about you.
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Post by baza on Nov 14, 2016 0:21:44 GMT -5
The drawn out - or quick - collapse of a relationship is a highly emotional time. It is generally accepted that there are stages one goes through - 1. Denial and isolation. 2. Anger. 3. Bargaining. 4. Depression. 5. Acceptance. But these stages don't fall into a neat linear progression. They can, and do, vary. You might re-visit a stage or two quite a few times. You might deal with a particular stage quite "easily". You might not even feel the necessity to deal with one of the stages. And you might get to a point where you figure - "I've got this all sussed out", and find out a day later that you do not have it sussed out at all. - I can't offer you any shortcuts through this process Brother JonDoe. A skilled personal counsellor can help you negotiate this, talking in this group might be useful too. But you do have to go through it. There's no way around it, under it, or over it. - And, by your post, you don't want to avoid it either. You seem resigned to the fact that you WILL have to go through it, and that is not such a bad mindset to have. - Feeling for you at this difficult time.
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Post by tamara68 on Nov 14, 2016 5:01:24 GMT -5
JonDoe I think you are absolutely right about not burying the sadness. Maybe it necessary to say goodbye to an episode of feeling numb. The good thing of feeling down is that after that, the only way is up Big hug!
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Post by JonDoe on Nov 15, 2016 22:36:29 GMT -5
I tried having a very brief discussion tonight with my wife regarding a few upcoming things we needed to make decisions on, each of which is unrelated to the state of our marriage. This should have been a 5-10 minute very easy talk that could have easily been had even while juggling on roller skates. As usual, Facebook, texting, the dogs, and the TV were more important to her. If she could multitask effectively and still listen and carry-on a conversation, then it wouldn't be a big deal, but she can't so she asks me to repeat myself, completely misses the point, or doesn't even realize that I stopped talking mid-sentence. Also as usual, her opinions were the only ones that mattered, she's always right and I am always wrong, regardless of the topic, at least in her willingness and capacity to think, communicate, and compromise. She is an undiagnosed narcissist.
Afterwards, I shared that I was sad as a result of our conversation and I didn't want to leave the room upset without at least sharing my feelings with my wife. The only thing I hoped for at that point was for her to acknowledge that I was upset and to display an ounce of compassion, nothing more. Not only couldn't she see or comprehend what I was upset about, despite very succinctly sharing how and why I felt the way I did at the moment, but her facial expressions, body language, and words clearly showed that she didn't care either. This is the same woman that kisses me on th side of the mouth every night before bed and says "Love you" each time we talk on the phone. However, she has not once in 25 years acknowledged how I feel about anything. EVER. I actually wept right there in front of her, I got nothing from her. So I wound up leaving the room feeling much worse than I would have had I simply kept it to myself as usual and just quietly left the room.
She came upstairs about an hour later, stopped at the doorway of the master bedroom, and simply said "It wasn't my intention to upset you tonight." I said "Ok..." and paused to allow her to talk. Then she said "That's all I've got. I'll see you in the morning.", then she turned and left to go sleep in the other bedroom as she does every night, except tonight she didn't come over to kiss me and say "Love you" as she usually does except when she is mad at me. And make no mistake, in her mind this is about her, and how I made her feel tonight. She'll make a point of telling me tomorrow how I caused her lose sleep tonight, and it certaintly isn't because she feels guilty in anyway or even sad to see me upset.
There wasn't an apology, a hug, any display of compassion, or even the usual goodnight peck. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Same as it ever was. And I am the fool for thinking it would be any other way!
For the next few days, she won't give me a peck before bed, say "Love you" on the phone, or wear her wedding ring. In fact, she won't even call me for the next few days, unless she or one of our young adult children needs something from me. Most likely, she won't even say a word to me as either of us leave for work in the morning. I'll get the silent treatment for anywhere between one to five days.
Are you as baffled as me at her actions and/or me putting up with it for so many years?
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Post by baza on Nov 15, 2016 23:04:19 GMT -5
I must say that I am NOT baffled by you "putting up with it for so many years" for the simple reason I've seen the same scenario play out many times in the old EP group (and this group), and in fact did the exact same thing myself back in the day. You have NOT done anything terribly unusual here. You / me / lots of people have shown ridiculous levels of tolerance to our ILIASM shitholes. Or fear of change. Or fear of upsetting the spouse. Or whatever that has held us in a state of inertia. - Nothing can be done about our past actions (or inactions) - the results are there in the book. - It starts again NOW. Same choice as yesterday ? or not ? - In regard to your missus, I again draw on my personal experience. I spent many years chasing my missus "why", and was just as baffled by her actions at the finish as I was at the start. So I stopped "why chasing". I stopped trying to make sense out of the bafflement, instead adopting a position that I did not fully understand her thinking, never fully did, and never fully would. And, even if I did fully know, it would not have changed anything anyway. That was very liberating. It left me to deal with the facts on the ground. And the way forward seemed much clearer. No "easier", but way way clearer. - This stage you are in is a bitch ain't it Brother JonDoe.
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Post by ggold on Nov 15, 2016 23:27:58 GMT -5
JonDoe I am so sorry for what you are dealing with. I can feel your pain and sadness. You've lived with this for how long? You know at this point what to expect from her. She is incapable of providing you what you need. Feel sad, weep....feel it all. You have to. Pushing your emotions aside will make you physically ill. You will move forward. You will figure it out. Right now, as baza stated, "this stage you are in is a bitch." (hugs)
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Post by JonDoe on Nov 15, 2016 23:29:47 GMT -5
Yes, it is a bitch of a stage. I wish I left her twenty years ago, or even while I was still numb. Now I just need to "rip off the bandaid" as another recent thread was titled.
I just can't believe how someone can appear so compassionate about other people, but not their spouse. Oh, and not her friends that she may be temporarily jealous of at the moment for one trivial reason or another.
I also can't comprehend how you can live with the same person for a quarter of a century and they still struggle to comprehend a very basic conversation with you. I can practically say "My shirt is blue. I like blue shirts." in a Forrest Gump voice, and she would misinterpret what I said. She would buy me a green shirt, and then say "I thought you said you had too many blue shirts!"
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Post by ggold on Nov 15, 2016 23:44:14 GMT -5
Yes, it is a bitch of a stage. I wish I left her twenty years ago, or even while I was still numb. Now I just need to "rip off the bandaid" as another recent thread was titled. I just can't believe how someone can appear so compassionate about other people, but not their spouse. Oh, and not her friends that she may be temporarily jealous of at the moment for one trivial reason or another. I also can't comprehend how you can live with the same person for a quarter of a century and they still struggle to comprehend a very basic conversation with you. I can practically say "My shirt is blue. I like blue shirts." in a Forrest Gump voice, and she would misinterpret what I said. She would buy me a green shirt, and then say "I thought you said you had too many blue shirts!" I hear you. It's very hard to "rip off the bandaid" though. I have been told the same. Right now, I'm slowly tearing that bandaid off and it hurts like a bitch. I've been married for 23 years and I feel I don't even know who he is at all. For much of our marriage, we have been unable to communicate about intimacy. What the hell? He's my husband and I can't talk to him about sex? I wrote him letters to express my feelings. Even then, he didn't get how hurt I was by his rejection. Now, he gets it. Why? I put him up against the wall. He thought if he avoided it, I'd continue to be silent. It took me what seemed like forever, but I am no longer silent. I no longer am giving him control over my sexuality and my needs. Through his own therapy and my actions, we signed the paperwork for divorce mediation. We have a second session in December. He said he would do anything not to have to divorce. I told him if he didn't go through mediation, I will have no choice but to retain an attorney. It sucks, I'm sad, I'm scared, I'm determined. I KNOW, without a doubt now, that I MUST exit this marriage. I think you know what you need to do as well. It's going to be damn hard but I pray there is going to be a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow!!!
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Post by baza on Nov 15, 2016 23:52:52 GMT -5
There will come a time, that you truly feel no need to keep taking inventory of your missus' shortcomings, and will accept that she is what she is. And be at peace with that. That is probably a ways off for you yet Brother JD.
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Post by JonDoe on Nov 16, 2016 6:13:38 GMT -5
There will come a time, that you truly feel no need to keep taking inventory of your missus' shortcomings, and will accept that she is what she is. And be at peace with that. That is probably a ways off for you yet Brother JD. I have flipped that switch off for several other family members and have no feelings of regret or remorse, so I already know I am capable of it. Last night when I wept in front of her, I truly believe it was because I realized that day is coming very soon for her too and because I know that she will turn my kids and others against me when she plays the victim card. I was also sad that I wasted twenty years of my life.
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Post by callisto on Nov 16, 2016 9:17:03 GMT -5
There will come a time, that you truly feel no need to keep taking inventory of your missus' shortcomings, and will accept that she is what she is. And be at peace with that. That is probably a ways off for you yet Brother JD. Another scary thing is you can be at peace with your spouse's shortcomings but STILL not find it easy to leave ; this may be partly because you have put so much of yourself into the marriage: time, empathy, loyalty, effort -you love them all the more.
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Post by warmways on Nov 16, 2016 10:44:39 GMT -5
It's so easy to get entrenched in living in this kind of marriage. We can make excuses and just hope it gets better but those feelings of sadness keep coming back. Somehow we have to allow ourselves the energy and focus to take small steps towards a better life for ourselves. Resist blaming yourself that it's taken years. You were trying to make it work. And then it's so easy to get stuck. Now is the time for putting yourself first. I'm glad you're not ignoring your feelings.
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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 16, 2016 13:11:57 GMT -5
I have been looking through my book "Growing Through Divorce" for the right thing to say. You sound like you have reached your tipping point?
Keys to Accepting a New Identity.
1) Don't keep living in the role of the old identity. The longer you do this, the longer you will block the potential for new growth.
2) Create "new experiences in living" for yourself. It's easy to live and relive your old experiences. creating new experiences in living will help you become an adventurer in the present rather than a tenant of the past.
3) Don't let other people superimpose an identity upon you. It's sometimes easier to become what other people want us to be rather than what we really want to be. Form your own identity. You are you, not what someone else is or thinks you are.
4) Learn all you can about your new identity and how to live it. Learn about being single, being a single parent, being a weekend parent, being alone, being resourceful, being independent, being a new person.
5) Realize that you are a unique unrepeatable person, with your own identity.
6) Know that you have the freedom to fail. We live with our own humanity, and the humanity causes us to make mistakes. Take risks and learn from your failures.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Nov 16, 2016 13:16:22 GMT -5
There will come a time, that you truly feel no need to keep taking inventory of your missus' shortcomings, and will accept that she is what she is. And be at peace with that. That is probably a ways off for you yet Brother JD. Very true. In my humble experience, being at peace with the fact that she just is the way she is, without hope or judgment from my side, was very liberating. But that was just the beginning. The freedom from judging my long term partner's shortcomings provided me a few months of not being driven completely crazy by her sexlessness, as well as her other frustrating behaviors borne of her all consuming need to never be responsible for anything. This is just the way that she is, I know. It is my choice to decide at what point I can no longer live with it. And with this recognition, it became just easy enough for a while not to do anything to remove myself from what has been a problem for a great many years. Regardless of whether one can escape the cyclical inventory taking, and whether one ascribes blame to a partner for their shortcomings or not, there are certain behaviors that simply should not be tolerated. For example, narcissism may be at least partially a result of having been brought up in the company of narcissists, but this does not make the self righteousness and selfishness any more acceptable. Again, at what point will I decide I can no longer live with this, regardless of whether I accept this as her default, or not. I see in JD's pain at least some recognition that this is the way she is, and a recognition that this likely will not be changed in the immediate future. But there still seems to be plenty of pain left to be had in recognizing that there are some people who just will not be satisfied until they have buried their partner to all and sundry on the way out the door. It is one thing to accept shortcomings. It is another to accept continuous beatings on behalf of and for the benefit of those shortcomings. As I am experiencing now myself, I seem to be able to accept my wife's shortcomings a lot more than I can accept the consequences of some of these shortcomings, specifically her need to destroy me in the eyes of others and especially my children in order to place all of the blame on me for the failure of our relationship. I wish you less pain, and as much fortitude as you can muster in deciding in whatever manner necessary what is best for you. SaveSave
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