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Post by baza on Sept 26, 2016 2:46:52 GMT -5
Brother endthegame recently posted a great article partially based on the "shrinkformen" site. - In it, he mentions that most people take 7 attempts to get out of an ILIASM shithole. - Got a question for the membership. If you got out, how many escape attempts did it take you ? If you are still in, how many escape attempts have you thus far made ? - And as a supplementary question, where do you figure any failed attempts failed ? - - I figure that "attempts" doesn't mean 'threatening' to leave, but rather means actually had a plan that went awry for some reason.
Addendum. That info on endthegames post actually said - "it takes, on average, 7 attempts to get out of an abusive relationship" It does NOT say what constitutes an attempt. - It might mean that you go apeshit and blurt out "I'm leaving" and your spouse responds "Don't go, I'll change", and you respond "OK" constitutes an attempt.
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Post by baza on Sept 26, 2016 3:17:41 GMT -5
Personally, I had "had enough" back in 2005, but had no plan at all to get out. In March 2009 I had my first "real" attempt and left for about a week. This attempt failed because I wasn't appropriately prepared (particularly legally) and was really acting on impulse rather than hard solid fact. Plus, the guilts got me to an extent. - For attempt #2, I had my legal advice and a solid plan, do-able in Jan 2010. I kept refining it, knocking off the rough edges, hanging out for Jan 2010. This one never reached fruition. It was replaced by #3, below. - An opportunity arose in October 2009, and although it had some weaknesses in it (awaiting some investment maturities) I figured I could sneak by, although it was going to mean living in very impoverished circumstances for 6 months or so. This became attempt #3 and I took it and worked out the finer detail on the run. It worked, and I was out about 3 months ahead of plan #2's timetable. The length of time I lived very frugally spun out longer than 6 months, but was survivable.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Sept 26, 2016 8:41:38 GMT -5
I had wondered what the 7 attempts really meant. I didn't try prior to leaving. During 8 years of dating, I had tried to move out once and got talked into staying. Over 17 years of marriage, I had to give the "I need more" talk quite a few times as revealed by my journals. The first serious "we need to fix something" was at 7 years itch. The recurrent "we need to fix OUR SEX LIFE" talks were around years 10, 12, 13, 14. Then the sex life was irretrievably broken due to his medical issues (prostate removal). In year 15.5-16, I found EP ILIASM. I hatched the plan, heavily based on lessons from there. I made the decision, got the exit plan "good enough" and then delivered my decision and filed for divorce, moved to guest room, moved out. So attempts at leaving may be 2. Attempts at fixing may be around 5. Totals 7, I suppose.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2016 10:22:51 GMT -5
I can't really answer the question.
1 - I'm not totally sure what counts as an "attempt."
2 - I didn't keep a count of the number of times I Talked To Him About It(TM), or did any other things that might count as an attempt.
3 - Since I moved out of his place about a year before The Big Talk - how would you count that year when we were living apart but still technically a monogamous couple? Was that an event, or a process? It felt sort of like a gray zone - we were neither truly together, nor truly apart.
Leave it to me to bring in things that are hard to quantify.
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Post by bballgirl on Sept 26, 2016 10:30:21 GMT -5
I had many attempts to try to fix it. That was a one sided thing met with avoidance and rejection. So when I was done trying to fix it I was done with him and worked on my exit strategy and I left my marriage on the first attempt. Started the process August 2015 and divorced Jan 2016.
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Post by becca on Sept 28, 2016 22:21:31 GMT -5
I have had the conversation twice. Both times were met with blank stares and very few words. I have said "I am leaving" and shame on me for not following through. I have a place to go and I have that all set up. I can financially support myself, although it won't be near the level I had but I just don't care about that anymore. A few months back I opened a separate account. I honestly don't want anything. He can keep it all. I just want him to repay my children what he took from them. That is all I will ask for when I leave.
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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 28, 2016 22:30:08 GMT -5
I have had the conversation twice. Both times were met with blank stares and very few words. I have said "I am leaving" and shame on me for not following through. I have a place to go and I have that all set up. I can financially support myself, although it won't be near the level I had but I just don't care about that anymore. A few months back I opened a separate account. I honestly don't want anything. He can keep it all. I just want him to repay my children what he took from them. That is all I will ask for when I leave. I still believe that a rough outline from an attorney, would go a long way in forming your future decisions. There is nothing wrong with wanting to collaborate. Reach a mutual admirable, legal, division of what is rightfully yours. Now and in the future years to come.
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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 28, 2016 22:34:57 GMT -5
I have had the conversation twice. Both times were met with blank stares and very few words. I have said "I am leaving" and shame on me for not following through. I have a place to go and I have that all set up. I can financially support myself, although it won't be near the level I had but I just don't care about that anymore. A few months back I opened a separate account. I honestly don't want anything. He can keep it all. I just want him to repay my children what he took from them. That is all I will ask for when I leave. Let me play devils advocate for a moment. Are the "blank stares and very few words" his response because you will not admit to being wrong, or take any blame?
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Post by becca on Sept 28, 2016 22:46:57 GMT -5
I have had the conversation twice. Both times were met with blank stares and very few words. I have said "I am leaving" and shame on me for not following through. I have a place to go and I have that all set up. I can financially support myself, although it won't be near the level I had but I just don't care about that anymore. A few months back I opened a separate account. I honestly don't want anything. He can keep it all. I just want him to repay my children what he took from them. That is all I will ask for when I leave. Let me play devils advocate for a moment. Are the "blank stares and very few words" his response because you will not admit to being wrong, or take any blame? I don't think so. I am quick to take my fair share of responsibility. Probably too quickly. I just don't want to cause pain. And so amidst "the talk" I let him know I love him but I just can't do this anymore. His responses are usually "uh-huh" and then "ok" and then if we are in the kitchen he will get to the point where he says "ok, I am done" and just walk away. But he has never admitted having any problem. It has always been difficult for him to say sorry. He very much likes to be in control of any given situation and this isn't in his control. But then I haven't left, have I so maybe it is. I just don't know...GC. I really don't.
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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 28, 2016 23:11:00 GMT -5
It can all be so much mind twisting, dishonest, manipulation! I too get blank stares, when I corner her, with facts. I used to fall for the "I don't know what to tell you, you said so many things". I notice the "uh-huh" and "okay" there is NEVER an apology. An apology would go a long way. I should be thankful. An apology can be words with no action.
Some of my most helpful moments were when I documented the event, all my words, and efforts to defend myself,correct things, receive an apology,and her blank avoid ant responses.All this would be read out-loud to the therapist in our group meeting. Only to have her respond with no emotion, and prove that she is not going to put forth any effort to change. Like your husband. Why should he? The moneys been spent, no consequences, the alcohol is available, no consequences, you can be ignored, no consequences, and the mask remains in place for the outside world to see the successful happy family, and wonderful husband. Why change anything?
I will answer that for me. I changed things for myself, my children, and (believe it or not) hopefully, someday, for my wife.
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Post by beachguy on Sept 30, 2016 16:21:45 GMT -5
I don't think so. I am quick to take my fair share of responsibility. Probably too quickly. I just don't want to cause pain. And so amidst "the talk" I let him know I love him but I just can't do this anymore. His responses are usually "uh-huh" and then "ok" and then if we are in the kitchen he will get to the point where he says "ok, I am done" and just walk away. But he has never admitted having any problem. It has always been difficult for him to say sorry. He very much likes to be in control of any given situation and this isn't in his control. But then I haven't left, have I so maybe it is. I just don't know...GC. I really don't. In fact he is totally in control as long as you blow off some steam every now and then, he skillfully (in his mind) ignores it, and then things go back to normal - exactly the way he wants it. This will go on until one of you expires. Or you leave. One of the huge mistakes made here is the idea that somehow your problem will be validated, or at least given consideration. After 30 years of this, I.Just.Left. And when I did finally decide to leave, I was careful to make sure there was no possibility of a reconciliation because that would have just continued the endless downward spiral.
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Post by warmways on Sept 30, 2016 18:11:57 GMT -5
First in 2010 (said I wanted a divorce) and he convinced me to go to counseling with him which didn't help. It failed because I didn't have an exit plan together and was too easily swayed and tried counseling. Second was June of 2015 and I said it in a really bad state (I was very upset emotionally and didn't have a good exit plan).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 18:54:42 GMT -5
That must be sheer hell to have six failed attempts to leave before you pull it off. It must be completely demoralizing. I had one long try. We never tried to "work it out" after the announcement (we did that before with the usual results), and she never tried to reset me, so it just took about a year of logistics, exhaustion, and bickering before we finally signed a separation agreement. Then I moved out and a year later we were divorced. About a year after that our dog died, and I don't see her much anymore.
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Post by solodriver on Sept 2, 2019 21:52:43 GMT -5
First in 2010 (said I wanted a divorce) and he convinced me to go to counseling with him which didn't help. It failed because I didn't have an exit plan together and was too easily swayed and tried counseling. Second was June of 2015 and I said it in a really bad state (I was very upset emotionally and didn't have a good exit plan). Even if my refuser wanted to try counseling now, it's too late for that. I tried to suggest that last year and was rejected. And even if she did, she wouldn't take any suggestions to her that were offered. She'd find excuses not to do them.
The only reason she would want to do counseling now is to prolong the marriage and delay the separation/divorce.
Sorry, I'm not falling for it now. I guess that will make me a real asshole/jerk. What does she think her rejection of me for 20 years makes her?
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endthegame
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Post by endthegame on Sept 4, 2019 14:33:43 GMT -5
Thanks for the mention Baz.
For me, 3 or 4 depending on one's perspective
1- I wasn't psychologically in a place to
2- I was trapped by work circumstances, own business, credit crunch etc blah blah. Maybe some of this lived in my head as opposed to reality. I had seen a lawyer this time btw.
3- Was more than prepared and equipped to jump. Family members got cancer followed by a handful of very hard years supporting people in their last days. To this day staying was a valid choice for me. The irony is my own mortality was highlighted, and the reality that one does not really live that long, and a heap of life was being sucked away on a SM.
4- No preparation. I just could not do another day. I left.
For what it's worth. Leaving is more than worth living a half life in a SM. Reading posts here one year on saddens me. To see people yearning to live and being held back is sad. A SM brings one's life down on every respect. Friends, work, hobbies, family... one needs to live. SM is not living.
But, you can only leave in your own time. You need to be ready.
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