Back in the day... I would get snuggling if she initiated it. It became a bit of a Cold War game though, because if she initiated it, she'd pose parameters around it. I eventually came to see it as a passive aggressive ploy designed to pre-empt a sexual bid on my part. By verbally initiating and setting the boundary at snuggling, the result would be that I would need to overtly reject the snuggling she initiated if, in addition, I wanted more. Clever.
If I initiated the snuggling, it was often rejected. I eventually learned it was because she "didn't want to lead me on" because then I'd get upset (noting that there is no acknowledgment of the central problem between us there - the idea that maybe "being married" might lead people to reasonably think that sex is something that might normally occur. By making it so "then I'd get upset", she and I both tacitly accepted the premise that the problem was all mine due to my expectations and behavior. The problem was my "getting upset".
When I moved out of the bedroom in fits and starts, it would often end up that she'd make a trip to my spare room in the morning and try to initiate cuddling. I'm uncertain what the intention was. I thought perhaps it was out of a genuine desire to comfort me because I was obviously in distress.
Yep. That’s how it went with me too. When I was in the SM there was no snuggling. He always pulled away.
He just wanted the customary hug and quick kiss before and after work which I began resenting and ended that when I realized it was just a formality. I didn’t like that he demanded that meaningless interaction when he knew I’d always wanted intimacy. It was as if he chose what level of affection he wanted.
warmways "It was as if he chose what level of affection he wanted." That is 100% accurate on so many levels. I don't know what percentage of ILIASMers are accounted for by this but my W is extremely intimacy averse. She chooses what level of intimacy she wants and that level, on a scale of 0 to 100, is 1. Level 1 intimacy is:
-Light, dry, closed-mouth peck on the lips as I go out the door about 3 times/week. Only out the door, never upon arrival.
-A light hug on the passing of a close relative only.
-Obviously no sex or if she was finally pressured into sex (back when that occurred) then it's crime-scene sex. Only in the pitch black under cover and quickly remove all evidence.
-NO talking about feelings or dreams or wants. Strictly business, chores, money, logistics, kid logistics, weekend plan logistics.
-Sit on separate sofas. If I touch her hand from my separate seating, allow the touch to linger for 0.75 of a second, then raise hand and pat my hand 3 times. Then get up and go to the kitchen.
This the "Shoutbox" -- basically a site-wide, group chat. (It's only visible to members.)
solodriver: Thanks warmways
Oct 30, 2019 23:36:15 GMT -5
RealMustangGuy: When using a member's username in a post, how does one get it to be in different color and work as a link? I can type in the name but after posting it doesn't look the same as when others use member's usernames in their posts.
Nov 2, 2019 11:37:25 GMT -5
bfar: Just stumbled on this article:https://masculinebydesign.com/sexless-marriage-is-symptomatic-of-emasculated-husbands/ was more than a little disconcerting. Are we digging ourselves further in the hole by trying to be all enlightened and sensitive?
Nov 3, 2019 13:46:42 GMT -5
petrushka: Mate, what's the alternative to all enlightened and sensitive here? Rape? Coercion? Sexual assault? Thanks, but I can do better than being a complete arsehole (or psychopath for that matter).
Nov 3, 2019 21:11:53 GMT -5
bfar: Petrushka... I'm just wondering if we shot ourselves in the foot, as it were, by giving giving up on our strength, and giving in to the feminist agenda of making men irrelevant.
Nov 5, 2019 11:30:21 GMT -5
petrushka: Sorry, I don't buy into that at all. I'm not giving up anything. I've been into the "feminist agenda" for nearly 60 years. Having an empowered partner empowers me. I want strong women around me who take responsibility for themselves and who can face me
Nov 5, 2019 17:20:16 GMT -5
petrushka: I see 'strong men', and controlling bullies, as basically weak, lacking confidence and self esteem -- hence they think they need to assert themselves that way. I loathe patriarchy as much as matriarchy. Partners should be equals.
Nov 5, 2019 17:24:43 GMT -5
petrushka: In my world view, you are buying into some really shitty memes there.
Nov 5, 2019 17:25:20 GMT -5
apocrypha: The "feminist agenda" has changed across the past 60 years. Some feminists of the 60's call the current iteration "fainting couch feminism", thinking it a subversion and betrayal of women's lib. Hard to get a bead on what folks think, using a broad label.
Nov 8, 2019 9:37:14 GMT -5
apocrypha: No aspect of that article (which I amount to a magazine offering bad diet advice) promotes rape, coercion (beyond seduction), sexual assault, and I don't understand your public performance suggesting that they would be and thus implicating bfar.
Nov 8, 2019 9:41:51 GMT -5
mirrororchid: pfar, being sensitive means understanding how others think and feel. It doesn't mean you are compelled to adopt their thoughts and feelings. This is a matter of understanding people including loved ones. If you aren't sensitive, you lack tools to
Nov 11, 2019 8:09:49 GMT -5
mirrororchid: live well. You need not soften, but you should be able to understand vulnerability. Recognizing others' distress provides me with cues when I need to use self-control or extend help. If you're strong, you should be helping others. Use what works.
Nov 11, 2019 8:14:06 GMT -5
worksforme2: You know who I miss ...I miss smartkat and andie..and snowman 12345
Nov 14, 2019 9:16:44 GMT -5